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Re: The Elemental Spirits of Nature (once: Nazgul...)

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  Posted by Osric on May 24, 1999 at 14:40:03
In Reply to: Re: The Elemental Spirits of Nature (once: Nazgul...) posted by Goodgulf on May 24, 1999 at 02:18:03:



: : I think it's entirely in character for Tolkien to have : : borrowed the principle of the Nazgūls' aversion to running : : water from the tales of Dracula, or from the same folklore : : as informed them, without necessarily exploring it fully. : : Though it may be a modern addition, I believe I have : : encountered the same in folklore pertaining to the British : : Isles. : : : : : : (Nazgūl and) THE ELEMENTAL SPIRITS OF NATURE : : : : The explanation of the connection of such waters with the : : Valar Ulmo is strong in that he could in-dwell in any water : : anywhere in Arda. However, even in Tuor's day Ulmo was : : coming to restrict his influence to the wide oceans because : : of Melkor's corruption and poisoning of the waters of : : Middle-earth. Ulmo's domain, however, is the sphere of : : which most is told regarding the spirits less mighty than : : the Valar themselves. Among the Maiar, Tolkien presents : : Ossė the Lord of Storms who rages against the shores of : : Middle-earth and Uinen, the Lady of the Waters whose : : tresses extend into every river and stream. Other spirit : : kinds are named in passing, of which Goldberry and River : : Woman may be taken as examples. I see the incident at the : : Ford of Bruinen as involving an awakening of the spirits : : of the river rather than as a case purely of direct : : elemental control on the parts of Elrond and Gandalf.

: Perhaps you've stumbled onto the answer of who the Lady of the : Lake was (Uinen) in the Arthur legends. Or perhaps Tolkien was : supplying the Lady of the Lake with a history. Or there may be : no connection at all. Any one know for sure?

Well I think it's more a case of convergent symbolism. Tolkien *might* have explained such a mythic archetype in historical Britain as stemming from the last traces of tale-awareness of his Maiar, but I doubt we'll confirm such a connection.

Uinen was also something approximating a patron lady of the Guild of Mariners in Numenor, if you want to pursue her further.



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