The White Council

Re: Caradhas

Tolkien and Inklings Discussion

: : I don't really know how I view Caradhas. I could see it as being some mighty Balrog or something of that nature, but I could also see it as being purely the imagination of the people of Middle-earth. While the latter seems unlikely, because it would rely on a lot of coincidence, it still is possible. As for the former, I think that it could be some type of Balrog makes sense (Balrog were Maia if I recall correctly, so say ex-Maia of Morgoth if it makes you happier). There was one in Moria under the mountains, and it mentions in the Silmarillion that many of Morgoths routed Balrogs, etc hid themselves in the ground, so it is entirely possible that this was what Caradhas was.

: Nah! Not a Balrog! After all Gimli says that Caradhas '..had an evil (?reputation?), long before the name of Sauron had ever been heard of..' That, of course, may just have been Gimli not knowing anything about the real past and what exactly had happened to the Balrogs (or even knowing about them before his journey with the Fellowship) and I would be inclined to believe this. But it does kind of suggest things that Caradhas was a bit of a nasty mountain before the return of Morgoth and his minions, back when Durin must have been hollowing out Khazad-dum, before any Balrog dug himself a hole. Beside if it had been another Balrod, I think that's a big enough issue to have come out in some of Tolkien's explanations of what ME was all about.

: But only thing that I have not considered is that Morgoth, of course, brought the Misty Mountains into being, as a barrier against the wanderings of Orome, long before the stumpy people ever awoke. This being the case, AND the fact that Arda was Morgoth's Ring, in which he invested much of himself into, it could well be that the evil of Caradhas is a manifestation of Morgoth's evil in having raised the mountains and the part of him that is invested in the earth. Possibly he bound one of his Maia servants of the mountain to give it added ability to effect its surroundings.

But isn't a Balrog just a Maia of Morgoth? So therefore if you are implying that Morgoth put some Maia in the Mt, you and I agree. How about that?

Jon

: : As for the earth spirit I guess it's possible, but I don't see a uniqueness about it that Tom has. Sauron could control the weather in Mordor, and Manwë could control the Winds of Arda (as Ulmo, and even the lesser Ossë and Uinen could control water) so I think this goes along quite well with one of the Ainur, whether it be Vala or Maia.

: : Jon

: Cheers

: Padster