The White Council

Re: Gildor Inglorion

Tolkien and Inklings Discussion

: The phrase "of the House of X" does not necessarily imply : descent from X. In the "Unfinished Tuor" in UT, Voronwe : introduces himslef as "of the House of Fingolfin," be we know : he was not descended from Fingolfin. He was "of" the House as a : servant not a son.

But how do we know this? Christopher suggests the fragment titled "Of Tuor and his Coming to Gondolin" was written in 1951, many years before the Eldarin genealogies reached their most final form. Aranwë (father of Voronwë) may, at that time, indeed have been conceived of as a Finwean descended through Fingolfin.

: The Sindarin "Inglorion" employs the masculine genetive suffix : "-ion" which can mean literal descent from (e.g. Aragorn : Arathornion, in the King's letter in the abandoned epilog to : the LOTR); or it can be used in a figurative sense (e.g. : Sirion, a river the Son of Streams).

Eldarion means "son of the Eldar", and Voronwë is called "Voronwë Aranwion" by his friend Elammakil in "Of Tuor and his Coming to Gondolin", meaning "Voronwë son of Aranwë'. Was the figurative usage ever applied to a household?

: Any Knight of Nargothrond could have used the epiphets : "Inglorion" and "House of Finrod."

I don't believe so. No other character says this of himself, or is so described by Tolkien.

Tolkien's usage in this matter is not clear, and he sometimes uses words or idioms in non-standard ways. He used the word "fief" to refer to specific areas of Gondor, for instance, and many people have argued this means Gondor is somehow feudal. But in the material prepared for the Appendices Tolkien said the Gondorian regions were called by suza in Westron, the same word used as the name for the Shire, and he defined its meaning as "a sphere of occupation (as of the land claimed by a family or clan), of office, or business." (See page 45 in THE PEOPLES OF MIDDLE-EARTH). "Fief" is not defined that way in the feudal sense. Tolkein seems to have had the non-feudal meaning of the word in mind when he referred to the "fiefs" of Gondor.

By the same token, he may not have been implying "of the household (servants, retainers, etc.) of..." when using the phrase "of the house of..." He seems very stringent in using "House of so-and-so" to refer to a family, and not a lord's personal following.

For example, Theoden's household knights are literally called "household knights" or "knights of Theoden's household".

Gwindor calls himself "Gwindor son of Guilin". He is a lord of Nargothrond but is never referred to as a member of Finrod's house (or Orodreth's). When Gelmir and Arminas come to Nargothrond they announce themselves as of "the people of Angrod".

The only reference I can find to anyone being of "Finrod's house" (who is clearly not a relative) is in "Lay of Leithian", but the constraints of the poetic form Tolkien was using may have prevented him from using "household". How am I to tell?

What I seek is a clear reference to a character who is indisputably (at least by me, grin) NOT of the house of which he said to be. I do not trust the phrase in "Of Tuor and His Coming to Gondolin" concerning Voronwë because we have no way of knowing what relationship Tolkien intended.