The White Council

Re: Accents - MORITURI TE SALUTAMUS

Tolkien and Inklings Discussion

: I still don't understand why the question of foreign distribution is brought up. This is a film in English.

: It is better to read a book in the original language. So much is lost in translation. No, much of the world does not speak English, but so what? That doesn't give license to put any old accent in the movie.

: What is wrong with a Bronx or Brooklyn accent anyways? Why is that wrong, but a neutral American accent ok??

: I just don't see why it is so hard for people to accept that The Lord of the Rings is a British work. That doesn't diminish its beauty in any way, does it? It is so parochial to try to ascribe some kind of worldwide significance to it--rather than just accepting that things of other nations can and do appeal to a broad base of people. I don't speak a lick of Italian, but I would hate to see Bernini's Life Is Beautiful dubbed in English, with American or British or even Italian accents.

: P.S.

: I really wish the Westron argument would go away. Westron does not exist!!!!!!!!!!I certainly accept that the Lord of the Rings is the work of JRR Tolkien who happened to be British. But if Gandalf spoke with a Scottish accent, would that be okay? Isn't it a British accent? How about Cockney English? As for Bronx or Brooklyn accents, there's nothing wrong with them. I'm from New Jersey and am quite familiar with the accents. I merely said that a modern regional accent wouldn't be appropriate. Or must all the characters speak with Tolkien's accent? And yet to be true to my own argument, yes, any old accent could be used and the story would still be good, except maybe Jar Jar Binks. Meesa hates his accents.

But I do not understand why any particular accent is important. To my mind, and this was the gist of argument, it is the STORY that is important. Of course Westron does not exist. But since it was used as part of the story, and since various people came from various countries of Middle-Earth, then to retain a sense of reality I assumed that there should be a difference in accents in the same way if an Italian visted America they would probably have an "Italian" accent. So a person from Rohan would speak English with some form of accent appropriate to their country. Now it is highly debatable as to what that accent would be. That is a separate argument in itself. But technically, books no matter what language, have no "accents". The accents are in the mind of the reader. I might have imagined John Wayne's voice whenever Aragorn spoke. I didn't though. It was actually Charlton Heston. And he did quite a remarkable job too.

And you say it is a narrow minded point of view (parochial) to ascribe some sort of worldwide significance to the book. To me it is just the opposite. How can Good overcoming Evil be only the national view of England? Don't other countries generally believe in that? What, specifically, are you referring to when you say "that things of other nations can and do appeal to a broad base of people"? Do you not see the grand themes running through the book that transcend national boundaries? Are things such as friendship, honor, honesty, fighting against evil and other principles under the sole proprietorship of England? Is Good more Good spoken with a British accent? It's almost as if you're saying that no one can truely understand Euclidian Geometry unless they study it in Greek.

But I want to make sure I understand you completely. Sometimes you seem to be saying that ALL the characters in the book should speak with a British accent. I on the other hand I am arguing that since Middle-Earth is an entire "world" with various countries, then people from these "other" countries should speak with some accent other than British to help distinguish them. This has nothing to do with foreign distribution or dubbing or subtitles. We all know that the "accent" debate is purely among English speaking people. Frankly, the distinctions between Amercian and British English are lost on those who do not speak the language, in the same way that I wouldn't know a Sicilian from an northern Italian. It's all Greek to me.