The White Council

Re: AICN's Moriarty Reviews LOTR Script

Tolkien and Inklings Discussion

: ***Michael - whenever you read this - welcome back. Hope the : road in thie case didn't go ever on and on.

Thanks. The road was long, with many a winding turn that led to who knows where....

: : That said, the change is indefensible because those seventeen : : years are crucial to the backstory for the Ring. What : : occurred in that time is really not important. But what : : didn't occur is completely vital: Frodo didn't age. Gandalf : : can't just go wandering off in search of the answers only to : : come back with them seven months later (and if he appears on : : Frodo's doorstep in the desperate condition Moriarty implies : : his character will be greatly weakened for no dramatic reason : : I can think of).

: ***I get what you're saying here but...my opinion is that the : dramatic reason is simply urgency, and to show that Gandalf : works harder than perhaps our usual idea of wizards. (I realize : that I'm defending a two-script version that may have already : changed!) I agree it is vital to show that the Ring has this : effect on mortals. I wonder if PJ will show us through Bilbo : (in dialogue or comments from other hobbits). If he doesn't : then I agree we need to see it in Frodo somehow.

We need to see it on both. There is simply no dramatic reason to depart from the story as laid out by Tolkien. "Urgency" depends not on the backstory, but on the plot.

: : It takes only a short scene where a subtitle of "Seventeen : : years later" appears long enough for the audience to see that : : time has passed. Or Sam and the Gaffer can age while Frodo : : doesn't in a quick succession of scenes (such as showing the : : gaffer working the garden after Bilbo departs and then : : providing a transition to an older Sam).

: *** This is very true but in an epic like this I can imagine : " the use of "time passing" titles or montages getting very : tedious.

The only places they would be needed are at the beginning (after Frodo gets the Ring) and during the lengthy travel periods, basically three shots: Bree to Weathertop, Weathertop to Rivendell, Rivendell to Moria. After that, time can pass as need requires and the audience should get the idea that the Fellowship is covering some territory. Even with a couple more such clues thrown into the second movie, I don't believe it would become tedious. But it certainly cannot be viewed as tedious for Jackson to say, "Seventeen years later" instead of "seven months later".

: : The point is that what triggered Gandalf's final concern was : : Frodo's apparent agelessness. He knew damn good and well : : Frodo had been given a Great Ring of Power. Although it's : : not clearly explained in the book, the Rings stopped TIME. : : Jackson is either not clear on that point or he may feel that : : since the book doesn't emphasize that power he doesn't need : : to. Or he may have corrected the error (assuming Moriarty's : : report is reliable).

: ***Now here we differ. I think the thing that triggered : Gandalf's final concern was that he learned that Gollum had : spilled the beans. Suddenly neither Frodo nor the world was any : longer safe in the obscurity of the Shire.

Gandalf didn't talk to Gollum until he had seen the effect the Ring was having on Frodo. Reread his account in "The Council of Elrond". He originally had a watch set for Gollum after Bilbo found the Ring, but then he forgot about all that.

Actually, what set Gandalf searching for Gollum in earnest was the watch he detected on the Shire. But Tolkien makes a big fuss over Frodo's not aging at the beginning of the book. It's a major point in the story.