The White Council

Edainic customs (was Re: Dúnadan Royal Councils)

Tolkien and Inklings Discussion

: : The Noldor maintained armies, however. Tolkien doesn't : : mention anything like a hird in Hithlum or the March of : : Maedhros. Some people might reasonably argue that the : : various battalions of Gondolin (detailed in the very ancient : : "The Fall of Gondolin") might be comparable to such forces, : : or perhaps the Anglo-Saxon fyrds (sp?) -- and that story : : dates from the "Mythology for England" period, so an : : Anglo-Saxon connection is not unreasonable.

: In U.T. Hurin rides of to the general muster with his household : knights. This I interpret as a chieftain riding of with his : Hird...

I wouldn't call them knights, but you're right. The comparison to a Hird is justifiable. I'd forgotten the reference.

[snip]

: : The departure of young men to serve in the armies or retinues : : of foreign kings, however, is a quite ancient practice and is : : by no means a northern invention. Greek mythology and : : history abound with stories of heroes and soldiers serving in : : foreign armies (Jason and the Argonauts, Xenophon's Ten : : Thousand Greeks for example).

: This, I am aware of, the germanic connection is just the most : obvious to make as the Edain are in so may ways like them- the : migrations, the way of life, the names, their appearance (the : description of the house of Marach might as well be an author : from the classical world describing Germans), the obviuos name : tie-in "northmen", did I forget any. I cannot help intuitively : thinking of the Norse- Germanic tribes when I think of the : Edain, especially the Marachians (I guess the others are more : Celtic in nature, but the Marachians dominates the Edain in my : perception).

Actually, the Marachians are more Celtic-like in some ways, and the Bëorians and Haladin are more Germanic in some ways. The Celts were better organized than the ancient Germans, and had large walled towns, etc. The Germans, on the other hand, often lived in freesteads and this tradition was maintained well into the Medieval era by the Anglo-Saxons, the contintental Saxons, and the Scandinavians.

I do agree, however, that the Edain are a Germanic-like people. This is, I believe, intentional on Tolkien's part, since they represent the successors of the peoples who were ultimately (in THE BOOK OF LOST TALES) the ancestors of the northern Europeans.

: : Also, the Council of the Edain (that's my name, not : : Tolkien's) was held by the Bëorians and Marachians together. : : It was an unusual event, although I concede I had not thought : : of it when posting that message last night. It may indeed be : : an indication of a folkmoot tradition among the two tribes : : similar to that of the Folk of Haleth.

: I guessed that you had forgotten it. What we need to do is : looking whether there were any others like it, in all ages; the : council in Esgaroth (the people seemed to have much power : there)? Muster of Rohan- Rohan should actually give us a very : "true" view of the ways of the Marachians so it may be : worthwhile looking at their court, the glimpses we get of : Eotheod society? Woodmen, Beornings? All these should provide : us with additional information.

The Council of Esgaroth? They were, so far as I know, just a town council, elected from the burghers (very Medieval, I suppose).

The Muster of Rohan is a standing, professional army of trained and well-equipped soldiers that drilled on a regular basis. There is in fact little resemblance between Rohan and the Marachians, the latter having lived under Elvish dominion and being incorporated into Elvish culture (Eldarin culture at that). The Rohirrim were the product of their historical evolution. Their distant ancestors were not particularly associated with horses -- that aspect of their culture arose because they were derived mostly from the surviving cavalry of the Kingdom of Rhovanion.