The White Council

Re: Mithrandir and Nazgul-Lord

Tolkien and Inklings Discussion

: : This question may sound stupid to the more learned in tolkien's works but it has bothered me for some time.

: : Mithrandir is one of the great Istari that came out of the west to help and eventually guide the battle against Sauron and also, therefore, Sauron's chief servant-The Lord of the Nazgul. : : Why then did Mithrandir have nothing to do with the physical slaying of the Nazgul-Lord, being detained at the pyre of Denethor?? : : And secondly, how is it that the mere mortal blade of Eowyn was able to slay the Nazgul-lord when the power of Gandalf and Elrond at the Ford could not

: That is actually a good question, and it really doesn't take that much tolkien knowledge to answer : ). But first of all, if you remember at the gates of Minas Tirith, how the Nazgul lord was the one who left because of the arrival or Rohan. But when Pippin finds Gandalf at the gate, Gandalf even says that there will be much that goes wrong if I am not at the battle field. and then Pippin convinces him to go to the Pyre of denethor and help cure Faramir. Personally I thought he made the right choice, becuase that was a good way for theoden to die (he was old and was wanting death in battle) And the Nazgul lord was killed really cheaply in my opinion and without much loss. I mean Eowyn and Merry ended up surviving anyway, and even if they didn't have to do that, they wouldn't have been allowed to go to the next battle anyway, so... And imagine if Gandalf had to waiste his life on the Nazgul lord?? He was basically the main man behind all of the wars with sauron. But I do not think that he would have died, he would have only been really weakened. But still, I think that the Allies (against Sauron) got off easily with the death of the Nazgul lord.

: And to answer ur second question, the mortal blade of eowyn was very powerful, and remember no mortal man was she!!!! Which I never really fully accepted becuase that is a play on words the way she could kill him like that. But it was not only by her blade, it was by the wight blade of Merry that the Nazgul lord was really caused to die by. Eowyn just kind of lifted her sword and struck where his head would have been. So if that doesn't kill him, I don't exactly know what will. As for the fords, What could that do to a Nazgul beside unhorse them, disorganize them, and scatter them shapless. I mean there was nothing in it that would have the power to kill them. I mean there is big difference of dying by a sword in the invisible head, then by being tossed around by the ford. And anyway, the Nazgul's spirits couldn't drown.

: The real question is in my mind, how does the Nazgul lord actually die?? I mean his power was in his ring and in his master. His spirit should have still survived?? Then what would Sauron do with the ring of the Nazgul lord? (presuming he held their rings) Someone answer me that!!!

If you read the scene carefully where the Nazgul is felled by Merry and Eowyn, I do not believe its says the Nazgul died, but was merely never heard from again. I suppose the way Tolkien wrote it, it could be debated. Sometimes I think Tolkien would have made a good spokesman for the government..."We can neither confirn nor deny..." :) Looking at it from another direction, Tolkien, being Catholic, believed in the immortality of the soul, so that it would be impossible to truely kill the Nazgul, who was really a man like us. His 'soul' just went wherever Nazgul souls go.

As for Gandalf, he was forbidden to use his great powers, but was directed to bring hope and encouragement. It may have been a mere literary device, but an effective one. It makes the book last much longer and gives Aragorn and others something to do.

The "wight" blade, was not a "wight" blade, it was fashioned by a Numenorean and bound with special spells specifically for the Nazgul. Perhaps specifically for the Witch King himself. The person who made it never got to use it, but chance (if chance you call it) brought this weapon to light. As some one mentioned to me, remember, it was Bombadil who selected the weapons. Whether by foresight or luck, he happened to give Merry the one weapon in he world that would be effective against the wraith. Since there is very little "luck" in Tolkien's world, I believe that Tom had a bit of insight. Eowyn's sword would have had no effect at all on the Nazgul without Merry stabbing him first. And even then I can't say for certain that Eowyn really did anything other than stab an empty cloak. Her role may have been to cause doubt and draw away the Nazgul's attention from Merry. But I'm willing to have both of them share in the victory.