The White Council

Re: Tom Bombadil and the Earth

Tolkien and Inklings Discussion

: Why do you say that? Who says that Sauron's ring wouldn't have any hold over the Valar? At the end of the third age, Sauron was probably a power to rival even the might of Morgoth in his prime (Even just in terms of army numbers, Sauron was fighting a three front war - Gondor, Lorien, and Dale - and probably would have won if it weren't for the ring's destruction - something any ruler or nation would find difficult. Morgoth only ever had to fight a one front war - and even then he only won through treachery; he never would have triumphed if it were for the treachery of people like the Easterlings and Maeglin.) To accomplish this, Sauron must have had some tremendous innate power, and been a maia of incredible stature. He put a huge portion of this power into the ring. And if Sauron's strength was a rival to Morgoth's, then power in the ring would have been significant even to the Valar. That having been said, I have no doubt that the Valar could have handled the ring - resisted its temptation, and destroyed it in the forges of Aule. But I don't think it would have been considerd a trifle even by them.

No, but I see where you're confused. Sauron's power at it's height was near the level of Morgoth at the end of the first age. I think Tolkien said that somewhere. I mean think about it, if Sauron was really as strong as Morgoth at the height of his power, don't you think the Valar would come themselves? Sauron was strong, but Tulkas or Orome would have wiped the floor with him. And remember, Saruman was not at full power while in Middle-earth. None of the Istari were. Personally I think the five could have wrecked Sauron had they no restraints on their power.

As for Tom, I think some people are missing some things. Tom isn't effected by the Ring, because he totally contradicts it. The Ring brings about greed and lust in the hearts of people. It makes them desire to change things for the good, but then as time passes they become rulers, and in the end a "new" Dark Lord. Tom on the other hand does not desire to have control over anything. As Goldberry says when Frodo asks if Tom "owns" the Old Forest, she says something along the lines of"Goodness no, all the trees and animals belong to themselves, and it would be a terrible burden to "own" them all". So the Ring would doubly have no effect on him because he doesn't desire the Ring and he doesn't desire what the Ring would give him, because he is SO HAPPY with his life, he doesn't need the benefits of the Ring.

Personally I don't think Sauron would have overcome Tom. But I don't think Tom would have beaten Sauron either. I believe Tom Sauron would come to the Old Forest but leave in fear, because he'd find something that he couldn't deal with, a lack of fear. Tom would not fear Sauron, and as we see in the book, a large part of Sauron's power is in his ability to strike fear and loathing in the hearts of his enemies. When he found this didn't work, I think he'd flee. And if it came down to a battle of song, my money's on Tom. After all, Sauron was hard put to throw down Finrod.