The White Council

Re: Tolkien's views on Elf-women

Tolkien and Inklings Discussion

: : I keep seeing people mention how conservative Tolkien was with his Elf-women. I don't understand where this idea comes from (and I mean I see it everywhere -- not just on the White Council). Tolkien's women mostly go into danger, get involved in the great issues of their days, and oftentimes save their peoples.

: This may be so, but these are the exceptions, the noble and heroic ones that are worth mentioning in tales. Just like five Hobbits of our aquintance- if we had not read the "shire" parts of the books where hobbits are described but only about the five Hobbits, we would be willing to deduce that ALL Hobbits were heroes that went and did things. This is about similar to the amount of information we have on elven women.

And yet how many times did Tolkien refer to certain characteristics of all Hobbits such as their inner strength and toughness that was all too often underestimated by their enemies. Besides, even though Frodo, Sam, Merry and Pippin were considered "heroes", the inference you make is that they were not representative of Hobbits in general. But it seems to me that Tolkien was making just the opposite statement about Hobbits. Not only that, but the entire Shire wasn't invited on Frodo's secret journey, so there is no telling how many Hobbits might have joined up had they known the situation.

: : Did Elven women stay at home? No. Indis wandered around Valinor singing and tending to plants and trees in the wilds.

: Valinor was a rather safe place.

: : Luthien went off dancing in the woods of Neldoreth and did who knows what else until Beren came along.

: The area girded by Melian and guarded by Beleg's and Mablung's troops was possibly the safest place in Beleriand to go dancing, wich is entirely in line with my interpretation of Tolkien's elven women.

And was the land between Rivendell and Lorien safe for Arwen to travel, crossing the Misty Mountains? And which route did she take to cross over the mountains? When the Fellowship crossed over they tried to take a way that they hoped would be less watched and of course ended up going through Moria. I can't imagine Arwen going by way of a path that was watched by the enemy unless her entourage was extremely large and powerful. But all this manpower to merely visit her relations? I can't prove anything about Arwen's abilities or powers, but something doesn't seem to make sense here. Not only that, but it says that Arwen had just recently returned from Lorien when Frodo sees her the first time in Rivendell. That would mean that Arwen travelled during a portion of the time that Frodo was also travelling. It was already known that The Nine were abroad, and they and their spies were actively seeking Baggins and watching the road (or roads). Would Galadriel or Elrond have allowed Arwen to travel at such a time unless it was extremely important, or there was enough power travelling with Arwen to dissuade any attack on her person or both?

"SNIP"