The White Council

Re: Dragons

Tolkien and Inklings Discussion

: : : I have a slight problem with dragons: what are they? : : : All that is said about their creation is that they were bred by Morgoth in the pits of Utumno. But it is also said that Morgoth did not have the power to create life, only to corrupt and disfigure what is already living (ie. orcs and trolls etc.). This being as it is I dont see how Morgoth could have "created" dragons. So, is there anything that tells where they came from or were they always there and Morgoth only managed to turn them to his evil will?

: : : Another thing is that Sauron never managed to duplicate this feat of having dragons at his will, unless the winged beasts that the Nazgul ride are a smaller version of the cold-drakes.

: : : Any thoughts?

: : Not really (I am totally braindead;-)), but it leads me to something that have puzzled me for awhile but that I have not yet looked into myself. Thus, I post this slightly prematurely; some time back, it was stated here that there were NO fire dragons left at the end of the Third Age (and thus that Smaug was the last) and even very few Cold Dragons. Now (that I have some spare time), I dispute this- I believe that there are references both in LotR and the Hobbit (unreliable source as it is) to (Fire) Dragons still being around. How come then that the esteemed Mr. Martinez says "no"? : : Anybody have any arguments or refrences for or against? : : >:-I Neithan Turambar (I HATE Dragons)

: I'm pretty sure that Smaug is referred to as the last of the fire-dragons in the Hobbit. Also, in response to the wonderings about why Sauron didn't take control of the dragons, it's not certain that he couldn't. Tolkien wrote Gandalf's account of his meeting with Thorin (as described to the Hobbits in Minas Tirith at the end of RotK) and Gandalf said that the reasons for his interest in Thorin's quest were twofold: re-establish the kindoms of Erebor and Dale in defence against Sauron, and eliminate the threat that Smaug posed to an ungaurded Eriador. Gandalf seemed to believe that Sauron could (at the very least) influence Smaug.

I think Sauron influenced all evil things in some way. Remember Gollum came to Mordor because all evil things are ultimately attracted there.