The White Council

Re: I wouldn't be so quick to call it an error (was Re: Why is it called Moria?)

Tolkien and Inklings Discussion

: : : : : : [snip] : : : : : : : : hmm.... i thought about some points which might clarify the subject: 1. what was written on Balin's grave? was he "lord of moria" or "lord of Khazad-Dum"? 2.in what language is the inscription on the doors written? I got the feeling that dwarves "reserve" the names they have given to things for "internal use" (only among dwarves and in dwarvish)

: : : : : : 1. In the book Gandalf translates it as "Lord of Moria." However, I don't have the time or the patience (or the skill) to translate the runes that are in the book to see if it says Moria or Khazad-dum.

: : : 2. The inscription on the West door of Moria was written in Elvish. Gandalf says that the words are in the elven-tongue of the West of Middle-earth in the Elder Days. Is it Quenyan or Sindarin though? (I lean toward Sindarin since Frodo can't read it but earlier in the book he can apparently speak Quenyan to Gildor.)

: : The runes on Balin's tomb are written in both the common speech and in Dwarvish. I'm at work, but still I don't recall the inscription reading "Khazad-dum." The inscription wasn't that long. So I'm assuming it said "Moria." (I can check tonight if someone else doesn't verify it.)

: : The inscription on the gate is the script used in Beleriand under Thingol. It is different from the Feanorean script. The one on the gate used characters for vowels. (The Feanorean used accents on top of or below the consonants in order to indicate vowels.) This is why Frodo couldn't read the gate (he knew Quenya; although they're not that different... Frodo probably could have deciphered their meaning given time).

: : In any case, thanks Michael. "Hadhodrond" was the name I was thinking of, but couldn't remember.

: : Dave C-Q

: I translated the runes on Balin's tomb. It has the same message written in two languages (I assume one was Khuzdul, the other was English). In Khuzdul, it said "Khazaddum". In English, it said "Moria".

Thanks for the info ppl. Well, i think that settles the subject than, at least for me, as in my opinion what happened was that Khazad-Dum was the Dwarvish name, and Moria - it's "translation" to other languages, not a corrcet one, of course, but that's how people called it. The Dwarves themselves probably changed thier own name of the place (probably in some kind of bitter irony) when it was darkened.