The White Council

Re: Olorin-Gandalf

Tolkien and Inklings Discussion

: : : I was wondering, if Gandalf/Mithrandir was just an incarnation : : : of Olorin? I know that they are obviously the same being, but : : : is Gandalf a form that Olorin took, with specific powers, a : : : specific type of body, and certain limitations...

: : Yes.

: : :...My main question is, why the limitations? I know that old : : : "men" symbolize wisdom and not war, but why the masking of so : : : much power? Why almost cripple your spirit by taking a body : : : that seems so weak, and only allowing you power to be accessed : : : at certain times.

: : The spirit was not crippled. Gandalf revealed himself in his power on a few occasions. What he did not do was reveal himself in a form of majesty. He did not, for example, appear as a being of light, or a huge towering giant rising up out of the sea, or as an extremely handsome and noble man, etc.

: : And the reason why the Istari were required not to reveal themselves fully appears to be that it would have undermined their mission. They could have become objects of reverence and veneration, and they would have been like lords opposing another lord, and not merely counsellors to Elves and Men, whom the Valar hoped would oppose Sauron of their own free will.

: : : Couldn't that body be a great weariness? Was there a choice : : : that Olorin and the rest of the five wizards had as to wether : : : they would be in the guise of wise old men? Why have the : : : burden of getting older at all? Why not have a body of the : : : eldar which is much more versatile?

: : [snip]

: : Versatile? Don't be deceived by the old man appearance. Gandalf was constantly travelling, getting into fights, and spent eleven days killing a Balrog. An Elven form probably would not have done him any better in that respect. He clearly was possessed of a greater strength and endurance than any Man or Elf.

: : No old man could have accomplished all that Gandalf did.

: But couldn't all of what you said have been accomplished without looking "old"? Among the questions asked was why appear old. We're not fooled by the appearance, but the appearance must serve some purpose.

Goodgulf, I posted what I think is a reasonable explanation for them appearing old. You'll find it a few posts down. It may not answer everything but I think it makes sense.

Fangorn.