The White Council

Re: Redemption and Free Will (was Re: evil and purpose)

Tolkien and Inklings Discussion

: : I am skeptical to the idea that Gollum "redeemed" himself. I'm sure that that's how Tolkien meant to portray it, but I just disagree. Gollum accidentally did some good (destroying the Ring) while attempting something evil (stealing the Ring). To me, this is no redemption. If a person robs a store and happens to shoot someone who is about to commit murder, is the robber "redeemed"? I don't think so.

: : I have always wondered why Men and Elves are called the Children of Iluvatar (and he called Dwarves his adopted children), but the Ainur are not. Sometimes they are refered to as "children of his thought", but that is a different classsification. It seems to me that one possible explanation is that the Ainur do not have "free will" in the way that Elves, Men, and Dwarves do. Whenever there is a major decision to be made, they always consult with Eru before they can take action. Also, they themselves were the singers of the Music. It was said that they didn't fully comprehend the Music (and didn't understand the Theme that contained Elves and Men at all), but it seems to me that just in hearing the Music, they would be guided by it. Whenever something good results from the action of an Ainu, it is refered to as "doom" or "fate" or some such. Often, when the Ainur take action without consulting Eru, the consequences are undesirable.

: : I am not arguing that the Ainur are automata (my evidence doesn't come close to suggesting that), but I do think that they are not as free to choose their course of action as the Children of Iluvatar are. I think that this difference in the degree of "freedom" of will is why the Ainur and the Children are so often at odds. (One could argue that Men have even more "free" will than Elves, and that's the source of their estrangement.)

: I would say the Ainur are as free as we are to do things, but are perhaps a bit wiser in that they realized that their actions apart from Eru often had undesirable effects. Consider it like a contractor building a house. He has the expertise to build a good sturdy house, but he must consult the architect's plans to insure that he builds it according to specifications. In the same way the Ainur have learned it is best to consult the Architect of Middle-Earth before acting or when in doubt.

: I recently heard a preacher saying that no one (excluding God I suppose) has absolute free will. I forget the examples he gave to support his reasoning. But I can think of various things that might hinder freewill. I am free to go to Mars, but the physical apparatus is not yet available for the flight. Or are we like rats in a maze, free to follow any path, but only one path leading to the "reward"? Or as God says, "Come now, let us reason together. On the one hand I offer you life and on the other Death. Therefore choose Life." That's not an entirely accurate quote, but I hope it's close enough to make the point.

: Finally, I don't have any answers really. Theologians have debated this question of Fate and Free Will for thousands of years without getting too far beyond the basic question and then running into multiple dilemmas or contradictions no matter which side of the question they were on. Years ago such matters seemed important to me, but as I've gotten older just making a decent paycheck and getting through the week has supplanted youthful idealism and the quest for ultimate Truth.

: I am happy to read the LOTR and ask few questions. I merely bask in the language and the story, fearing that I might walk around a corner in Bree and find that the whole town is a bunch of facades with only the illusion of depth. As long as I stick with the story I don't stray too far the world remains real and intact.

I am young, and want to seek truth with all my might. Unfortunatly, this is beyond my understanding. Taking Eru, it appears that he knows exactly what will happen, that he has either planned it, or has perfect knowledge about it, and yet at the same time, the players of Middle Earth each has free will, and every decision is ultimatly theirs, freely taken. This may sound like a contradiction, but it is not, it is just that with my limited understanding, I cannot reason how it can be. Maybe when I'm old, and know everything, then I'll understand it! I don't think Gollum redeemed himself either though. (He bit off Frodo's finger, nasty little...!!!!) I think it just showed Gandalf's wisdom, and the ultimate sense of Frodo, in doing the right thing and not murdering him.

The Ainur also must have free will, because otherwise, how could Melkor go against the music, (and therefore the will) of Eru.