The White Council

Re: Added Benefits of a Ring of Power

Tolkien and Inklings Discussion

: : : : : : ...Sauron returned to Middle-earth as an intangible. It should have been lost when Sauron was thrown down. I always thought this was just something that Tolkien had overlooked and never thought much more about it. : : : : : : Is there more to these rings than meets the eye, or am I making an incorrect assumption?

: : : : : Well, none of this is ever said explicitly as far as I know, but this is my take. : : : : : As for Sauron in the drowning of Numenor, this is something a bit more famous for debate. I find that the only thing that makes sense is that he left the ring in Mordor. Think about it: the armies of Ar-Pharazon defeated his legions without any fighting; just their splendor scared away his forces. And Sauron was scared too. He was actually afraid. For all he knew, the King was going to "kill" him then and there. He knew if it came to blows, he would loose. So he left it in Mordor, maybe in soome deep vault, locked behind spells and steel, so that he could reclaim it if it came to that. (But as for why he wore it when he fought Gil-Galad and Elendil, it's probable that he thought he could win, so he wore his ring in order to give him every advantage.) That's my story, anyway. : : : : : Or it could be that both Sauron (the first time) and Gandalf took their rings with them when they went bye-bye, but Sauron (the second time) wasn't able too. Maybe the rings have a spiritual state, an existence in the spirit/wraith world, of which their physical material is only a reflection. After all, the ruling ring disappears along with the bearer when Frodo or Bilbo puts it on. Maybe that's the normal thing for rings to do, and it was only because Sauron was really "done in" that he couldn't keep his hold over the ring (he was "dead," whatever that means for an ainu). Perhaps in the Numenor thing, Sauron was already on his way back (in spirit form) when the tidal waves overtook him. If he had maintained his presense of mind, he probably could have concentrated enough to keep the ring. Maybe? It's possible. After all, who of us really knows how the rings of power work or behave? : : : : : Or Tolkien just didn't think about it. He was only human after all. : : : : : But personally, I think the leaving-it-in-Mordor explanation is good (and simple) enough. : : : : : Dave C-Q

: : : : I think that's also the true exlanation-as it seems from this part in "Akallabeth":"he (Sauron) was taken in the midst of his mirt, and his seat and temple fell into the abyss. ...Yet his spirit arose out of the deep...and came back to Middle-earth and to mordor... There he took up again his great Ring in Barad-dur (where he left it?)...." : : : : Personnaly, I don't think it's possible for the Ring to travel with it's wearer's spirit - the Rings of Power seems a much more things of matter to do that.

: : : Sauron did NOT leave the One Ring in Mordor when he went to Numenor. Sauron's spirit DID take the One Ring back to Mordor with him after the downfall of Numenor.

: : : Tolkien said in his Letters (and he sould know):

: : : "Though reduced to 'a spirit of hatred borne on a dark wind', I do not think one need boggle at this spirit carrying off the One Ring, upon which his power of dominating minds now largely depended." (Letters, p. 280).

: : : That seems simple enough to me.

: : : : : Padster

: : Yes, well the ring to me as always seemed something with more of "itself" in the spiritual world than in the physical world.

: : The physical ring is really nothing more than a piece of metal (gold probably)...the real power of the ring is in the spiritual world.

: : So, it does not suprize me that Sauron, in spiritual form was able to control the, less powerful, physical side of the ring. He would just use the non-physical part take control of the physical part.

: Hmmm... interesting.

: So my second explanation was closer to the mark... wierd.

: I still don't see why Sauron would have taken the ring with him. Hmmm... unless Sauron himself was beholden to the ring. ????

: What do you think of that, y'all?

: Did Sauron cook up a drug that he became dependent upon? Did he lust after the ring with the same passion that Gollum (and eventually Frodo) did (though tempered with his greater wisdom and power and strategems)? Did Sauron take the ring with him because he couldn't bare to leave it behind, even though it would have made more sense to not bring it within sight of his enemies?

Now there is an argument that I haven't heard but when you think about it, it makes sense. Also, Sauron seemed to have this real lust for power (even more so than Morgoth, I would say) and did everything he could to gain as much power as possible and in so doing forged the One.

So, his lust for power, now coupled with this new drug-like addiction to the ring would make it impossible for him to leave it behind.

Kinda reminds me of a crack merchant getting addicted to his own merchandise...Sauron, the druggue...haha :)

: Dave C-Q