The White Council

Re: How is Tolkien applicable to your life?

Tolkien and Inklings Discussion

: [snips throughout] : : : : For example, my position on the death penalty has changed over the years. When I was young I was ardently opposed -- I had much more faith in humanity than I do now, I suppose. After having lived awhile, my opinion changed. But through it all, whether in the passion of my youthful ideals or the sobriety of my middle aged concessions, one phrase which came into my mind over and over and over again, was the words of Gandalf to Frodo regarding Gollum (From memory, please excuse any slight inaccuracies):

: : : : Frodo: It was a pity Bilbo didn't kill him while he had the chance.

: : : : Gandalf: Pity? It was pity that stayed his hand. Pity, and mercy, not to kill without need.

: : : : Frodo: But he deserved death!

: : : : Gandalf: Yes. And some who die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be so quick to meet out death.

: : That is something that first made me think of capital punishment. (From talking to others, apparently many readers had that raction.) Growing up in a very conservative household, this was probably the first ever quasi-anti-death penalty sentiment I had ever come across. Since then, I have found out much, much more about the death penalty, and oppose it on all concievable grounds. And whenever I reread these lines, I get a warm, fuzzy feeling.

: : : A couple things you wrote, Galadriel, struck a chord with me. I am in favor of the death penalty, but only with great reservation. I haven't heard many other voices that expressed similar ideas about it (if I understood you right). I think the death penalty should only be used with an attitude of compassion for both the victims and the condemned. Most people would blanch at the idea of executing someone while having compassion for them. I find it no contradiction. Sorry if this is too off-topic, but the Gandalf - Frodo exchange about Gollum is critical here. Hope this doesn't start a firestorm.

: : Is there ever an instance in Tolkien where compassion and a death sentence is given at the same time? Doesn't compassion in Tolkien mean giving someone a second chance (which the death penalty denies)? Aragorn's compassion wouldn't really have meant much if he had Beregond executed anyway, would it? And if Gandalf or Bilbo or the elves had killed Gollum (even if they did it with compassion), what would have happened to Frodo and the Ring and everyone else? Even the wise cannot see all ends...;)

: No, in Tolkien I have found no instance of compassion and a death sentence. In the case of Beregond (in my mind) it would not be justice to execute him (though he knew when he did it he could be subject to that- What a sacrifice for his beloved commander!). However there are cases, such as remorseless, premeditated murder where I believe justice requires the death sentence. Withholding that sentence is bad for maintaining an orderly society - more will kill if none are properly punished. Further, I do believe it can be compassionate to execute a murderer, because it gives the person a defininte deadline for reconsidering what they have become and seek the mercy of God. The Christian faith teaches that it is much more important to be reconciled to God for eternity, than to extend your earthly life. I don't think the current U.S. system with appeals lasting decades accomplishes what it should, however. Hope I've made you think & see that favoring the death penalty does not automatically mean cruel & heartless! I do agree with Gandalf that we should "not be so quick to meet out death." It just doesn't mean you should never do so.

: -Steve S.

However, not everybody is a Christian. I think the whole practice barbaric anyway. Gandalf's words to Frodo are explicit, if you have a death penalty, some who die will die undeservedly, you cannot bring them back, there is no ultimate appeal.

This is not Tolkien's main influence on me however. Neithan's comments above rightly warn us not to be too simplistic about what influences our lives, but I cannot help but think that although things always seem to go from bad to worse, there is always hope. Which I think is quite Tolkien.