Science fiction and fantasy: Xenite.Org -- Worlds of Imagination on the Web!

The White Council

Re: Purpose of the One Ring

Tolkien and Inklings Discussion

Archive index

Tolkien and Inklings Forum
Middle-earth Mailing List
LoTR movie news
LoTR collectibles
Liv Tyler is Arwen
Elijah Wood is Frodo Baggins
Tolkien Middle-earth at Suite101
LoTR movies forum
All Forums

  Posted by Michael Martinez on October 07, 1999 at 20:06:35
In Reply to: Re: Purpose of the One Ring posted by shadowfax on October 07, 1999 at 08:03:44:



: yes, but the rhyme is not just a child's jingle. It is a sort : of spell. If the elves had written it, it would contain lament, : not triumph. Repeating the rhyme really works some form of : magic. Remember the sky darkening when Gandalf spoke it in the : Black Tongue at Elrond's council. The entire rhyme must have : been written in that language initially, and later translated : to the Common Speech. The rhyme must have been written by : Sauron as a covenant or magical invocation to what he wished of : the Ring.

Well, Gandalf says only "It is only two lines of a verse long known in Elven-lore" when he translates the Black Speech inscription for Frodo. It's impossible for Sauron to have spoken the entire rhyme when he first made the Ring because the dispositions would have made no sense. When the Elves would have conferred with him to learn his lore-rhyme after the War of the Elves and Sauron is a mystery to me as well.

And I don't see why the Elves should create a rhyme of any different tone from the one in the rhyme.

But Gandalf did not repeat the rhyme at Rivendell. He simply spoke the words in the Black Speech. He only spoke the words which were inscribed on the Ring, and which were later incorporated into the rhyme.


Xenite.Org: Science Fiction and Fantasy


Tip: Earlier messages, if they are missing when you click on the links, may be in a lower-numbered archive. Edit the URL in your browser window to change the archive number. Ex. archive_02/ becomes archive_01/.
Tip: Click on the Tolkien and Inklings Forum link to followup to archived messages. You'll need to copy the text from this message and repost it in your new message.


The Tolkien and Inklings Forum is an SF-FANDOM Web site.

SF-FANDOM is a part of the Xenite.Org network.

Xenite.Org is home to Lord of the Rings movie news. The Tolkien and Inklings Forum is the Web's oldest fan-run forum dedicated to J.R.R. Tolkien.

Xenite.Org has been providing the most comprehensive Lord of the Rings movie news on the Web since February 1998.

Xenite.Org also brings you Xena Online Resources. Xena Online Resources is the Web's largest directory of Hercules and Xena-related content.

The Xenite.Org network is home to more than 100 science fiction and fantasy Web sites.



The Tolkien and Inklings Forum is an independent, moderated forum provided as a courtesy to fans of J.R.R. Tolkien and the Inklings, including C.S. Lewis, Charles Williams, et. al., by Xenite.Org. Please be sure to review our Posting Policy before participating in our forums. This archive is provided as a courtesy of Xenite.Org and in no way implies or imparts any liability or obligation on our part to uphold or maintain the content provided herein. This message and other archived messages from Xenite.Org forums may contain content not necessarily endorsed, reviewed, or approved by Xenite.Org and/or its moderation staff. All opinions expressed in these archives are those of the original posters and do not necessarily represent the views and opinions of Xenite.Org, its owner or owners, moderators, administrators, and/or other volunteer staff or agents. All content is copyright the original poster unless otherwise noted. This page is copyright © 1997-2001 Michael L. Martinez. All rights reserved. No reproduction, electronic or otherwise, may be made without the express permission of the copyright holders, except as occurs in normal browser caching and search engine indexing. You may print one copy of this page for your personal use.