The White Council

Re: How is Tolkien applicable to your life?

Tolkien and Inklings Discussion

: What Galadriel and I have said is a far cry from 'zapping weeds', and we certainly never advocated 'genetic cleansing'! Please understand that I totally agree with you that it is wrong to use more violence than is necessary: it should be used with compassion (as I said before), restraint, and as a last resort. It should not be done for vengence but for justice, and if there is any doubt as to the motives or guilt certainly execution should be stayed. I take no pleasure in the thought of seeing the guilty 'zapped'. It is a great sadness to me. You have raised several other issues that I disagree with, but this is not the proper forum, as we are straying from the intent of the White Council. I will however, address what Jesus said about casting the first stone. The crowd he was addressing was completely devoid of the mercy & compassion Galdriel and I have been advocating. They wanted to trap Jesus between the Jewish law and the Roman law and didn't care if the woman died as a byproduct. He did not explicitly do away with the government's use of capital punishment. A brief answer to a complex issue. I don't want to further pursue this on the White Council because it is getting so far from the intent of the board. Feel free to disagree with my views. Just please don't try to characterize what I said as something it isn't.

: Respectfully, : -Steve S.

In all due respect to you and your opinions, I think it is not right to end a discussion by saying that this or that is besides the point just because you don't agree with it. It is not out of place to talk about the real world here, because the title of this thread contains the words *How* and *applicable*. What I said about 'genetic cleansing'* is no less applicable than Galadriel's stories about Kung Fu.

I think there was no doubt whatsoever as to the guilt or evil intent of Gollum, and yet he was spared. In reality, you probably NEVER get a situation where the case for guilt is so clear. Yet people are still being put to death for less than what Gollum did.

What you write here about punishment with compassion has little to do with what Galadriel wrote about being her own judge, jury and executioner. This goes far beyond the scope of self-defence and this sort of attitude advocates disrespect for basic human rights.

Meeting violence with violence, whether with or without the blessings of the law is doing exactly what Sauron wants the ring bearer to do, to use the Ring of Power against himself, only to loose. LOtR shows that it is the meek and not the sword-bearers who bring victory. It is also a case of tackling the problem at its roots (destroying the Ring), rather than destroying symptons (Sauron's armies) which leads to victory. To destroy the violent with violence is only to become guilty of their sin and to join their ranks. The solution is to fight the problem at it's roots, , by non-violent actions towards improving society. The very idea of killing with compassion is contradictory (and don't take it personally).

You can disagree with me, that's your right, but don't say that what I say is besides the point or irrelevant. And above all, please don't take things personally. This is a free discussion forum where everyone can voice their views and question other people's. That's what you did, but that's also what I did.

* = justification: I am sure many people in the justice system are convinced they are doing society a good turn by eliminating certain people and putting them to death. If that isn't genetic cleansing, what is?