The White Council

Re: How is Tolkien applicable to your life?

Tolkien and Inklings Discussion

: : : However, not everybody is a Christian. I think the whole practice barbaric anyway. Gandalf's words to Frodo are explicit, if you have a death penalty, some who die will die undeservedly, you cannot bring them back, there is no ultimate appeal.

: Not explicit -- as I said, I've pondered this passage both as a death penalty foe and as a pro-albeit-reticent death penalty advocate. It is more "barbaric" to allow violent offenders out onto the street where they attack and maim and even kill again and again. The person murdered also cannot be brought back and has no ultimate appeal. Where is the compassion for them? Where is the dignity and worth of the victim?

: We have a case here close to my house where a little boy camping with his mom went from his tent into the bathroom. When he took too long, his mom went in to find him *brutally* murdered. The killer was caught, tried, and has been sentenced to death -- per the killer's own recommendation. I watched this young man testify via TV, and he has *ZERO* remorse. He says that it is his mission in life to destroy this society in any way possible, and that if he is not executed he will kill again and again. Per his own words, he is our enemy, and the only sensible thing for us to do is sentence him to death.

And now doesn't the fact that this individual is suicidal indicate something about his mental state? Where is the compassion for tortured souls (a la Gollum, who was a remorseless cold-blooded murderer, who while he fought tooth and nail to survive also hated life (others' and his own)).

: What made me switch? I don't know, but as of last month I now have a guess. I've practiced Kung Fu for six years now, and sometimes we get into discussions about the rare situations when violence is appropriate. One evening the discussion turned to the Death Penalty. One of the black belts made the statement that conservatives were former liberals who had been attacked and brutalized. His words hit me in the gut harder than any blow of a fist I've ever taken. And he's very right. There's nothing like a little reality to put your ideals into perspective.

I am sorry for any pain you have suffered and endured. But is the path we walk down the path of Aragorn, who can retain his compassion and his purpose in the face of years and years of pain and hardship and evil? Or do we follow Turin Turambar, master of doom, **by doom mastered**, a sword of vengence and hate who ultimately comes to naught? (Sorry for the vagueness; I'm trying to keep this Tolkien related. ;) )

: After all, why else would I be studying Kung Fu for six years? Because the next person who attacks me will be lucky to see the inside of a court room. It's not that I want to cause unecessary harm -- I don't have a need for revenge. But it ain't gonna happen again, and depending on the nature of an attack, i.e. if it involved a gun or some other life threatening situation, I would not hesitate in that moment to be judge, jury, ... and executioner.

: Does that strike you as barbaric?

In a word, yes.

: I see it as simply and sadly necessary.

I think it is sad that you feel it is necessary.

: Blessings,

: Galadriel : Who hopes she will never, ever be forced into such a situation

Here's hoping that you can come through whatever pain and misery you've been forced to endure, and someday find healing.

The death penalty as an idea is much more clear an easy a concept than the death penalty in practice. What happens when racism plays a part in deciding who gets a death sentence? Or overworked, underpaid, burnt-out public defenders (as opposed to highly paid lawyers for the wealthy - the US has *never* executed a wealthy person)? Or when someone is wrongly convicted, spending years of their lives in the shadow of death? Or when some aggressive DA wants to score political points as "tough-on-crime" no matter who has to fry? Is the DP a humane punishment? (Think of Old Sparky in Florida.) Does it deter crime? (Not according to the FBI, and a national survey of police chiefs (although most support the death penalty anyway).)

I've found that when one gets into the dirt and grime of things, when one sees how things work, then all the talk of "detering crime," or "sending a message," or "giving closure to the victims' families," or whatnot - all the ethereal, philosophical arguments ring as hollow as the poisoned tongue of Saruman.

Dave C-Q