The White Council

Re: magic, the supernatural, religion and Tolkien

Tolkien and Inklings Discussion

: Is magic just a literary device, or is it applicable (oh I hate that word, does anyone have a better one?) to the world?

In other words, does it work? :-)

: How far are magic/religion/the supernatural/science redeemable with one another?

I would suppose the answer to this question would get to the root of an individual's philosophy of life. I sense a oneness of the universe. I don't usually experience it that way -- I experience life as a myriad of differentiations within the oneness. But my intuition tells me that somehow behind what Lao Tze calles the "10 thousand things" is a single essense. It might seem hypocritical of me then to say things such as "myths are not historical facts but they are true" as though there were different forms of true, and there are times I get discouraged because the closer we come to fact the further we move from meaning, and vice versa -- a kind of quantum mechanics of truth. But such is the nature of form. You look at a paper from above, and it is a rectangle. Look at it from the side and it is a line. Is a paper a rectangle or a line? It is a paper. In the end, there is only ONE truth, however many perspectives we try to view it from.

: I myself an an engineer with a Catholic background, so I like to see things rationally within the borders defined by Christianity, Ethics and Aesthetics. This does not mean that I scorn all other forms and suggestions of the supernatural. I grew up in Berkshire, UK, within the aura of the White Horse and other prehistoric monuments, and must admit these have always had a fascination and attraction for me.

Pardon my American ignorance. What is the White Horse?

: What I like about the religious side of Tolkien's mythology, is that it reconciles Pagan (polytheistic) with Christian (monotheistic) views of the universe. I have always felt both have a validity of their own.

I'll keep this brief, because I know you're fishing for answers further from home. I was raised hard core fundamentalist, in a strict and practicle home which had little use for silly metaphorical abstractions. I became immersed in Tolkein at roughly the same time that my choir practices introduced me to renaisssanse church music and thereby to my first serious mystical experiences. My family had always taught me that Catholics were pagans that worshiped statues and made sacrifices during communion, so when I attended my first Mass at age 16, I was duly TERRRIFIED. :-) But I became increasingly discontent with the protestant assertion that communion was mere symbol, when I experience symbols and metaphor as anything but "mere." I was enamored of the poetic beauty of liturgy, and though I was trained that ritual was empty, I began arguing that it was empty or full depending on what one chose to see. Despite my ingrained fear of Catholicism, the writing was on the wall. Between O Magnum Mysterium and Middle Earth, I knew where I didn't belong, as well as where I did belong, and converted to Catholicism at age 26.

I don't have a clue how to explain how Middle Earth is essentially a Catholic world view. I'm an inductive reasoner: it's something I sense, but it would take me a long time to figure out on a conscious level what my subconscious sees as obvious. But irrational that may sound, I am sure that I am correct in my assertion. It's not in the facts, since obviously Middle Earth is not historically factual. It's at a deeper level... Wasn't it CS Lewis who said that if one wishes to remain an atheist, one would do well to avoid good books?

Lady G.