The White Council

Re: A middle-earth based in christendom

Tolkien and Inklings Discussion

: : I read the intriguing thread started by Finrod below and hope I can add to the discussion. I don't think Tolkiens writings were 'remotely inspired' by christendom as Judea suggests, but rather heavily inspired. Andreth the wise woman even hints at the coming of christ (the conversation between Finrod and Andreth) and Tolkien makes a reference to the virgin Mary in the same passage.

: : The idea of the faith of men in middle-earth is very christian. The fall and the marring and the idea of original sin in both elves and men are further indications. Tolkien wrote that all elves and men had an inherent 'morgothism'...a corruption. The author himself (in one of his letters) calls the maiar an 'angelic' order (so Foster is on safe ground here).

: : It's not entirely correct to say that the valar create the earth. It is a product of Illuvatar. The valar only fullfills the vision he gives them. However Judea, I think it moot to exemplify how midddle-earth defers from christendom. Of course it's not the same...there must be differences. Tolkien used christendom as he used other traditions, beliefs and myths (though to a greater extent) as a way of anchoring his mythology so it would become believable as myth in itself. To copy the bible would be shooting himself in the foot. The bible is supposed to be yet another collection of half truths coming from the 'true history' recorded in the red book. This technique Tolkien used widely and with great success.

: : Well this turned into a rant and no mistake. I'm sure many will disagree, but there ye have my thoughts :) Must run.

: : -Frode

: Surely ME cannot be Christian since Christ does not exist in the cosmos Tolkien created. He explicitly states that the setting is in an imaginary far past and therefore must pre-date the incarnation. Though Orthodox Christology would state that "The Son existed from the first with the Father" Tolkien does not mention this in his world, ie. that a pre-incarnate Christ was with Eru.

: In that the setting is monotheistic, though without either God incarnate or a great prophet - which rules out both Christianity and Islam, then the closest parallels would be to Judaism and - because of the explicit eternal fight between good and evil - Zoroastrianism.

Just because the Silmarillion doesn't portray the Incarnation or examine the Trinitarian doctrine doesn't discount all the other obvious parallels to Christianity. That's like saying that C.S. Lewis's Narnia books aren't Christian allegories because they don't mention Aslan having a son! Also, you can definitely rule out any Zoroastrian influence. In Christianity and the Silmarillion, good is going to win in the end. In Zoroastrianism the fight will be eternal. Also, the Zoroastrians believed that good and evil are equally powerful (thus assuring an eternal stalemate). Christianity says that God created EVERYTHING and that evil is only perverted goodness, or the pursuit of something good in the wrong manner. The Silmarillion lines up perfectly with that view.