The White Council

Re: Feanor, Finwe and Mandos (was Re: No)

Tolkien and Inklings Discussion

: : : : : : Feanor won't be the only Elf to spend the rest of Time in : : : : : : Mandos. Finwe, at least, will also be there, but there is : : : : : : good reason to suspect that many Feanorians and some of the : : : : : : Avari will indeed be stuck in Mandos until the end of Time.

: : : : : Sorry, please remind me why some of these elves(eg. Feanor & : : : : : Finwe) have to spend all eternity in Mandos...

: : : : As the instigator of the Noldor's rebellion and the primary leader in the Kinslaying at Alqualonde Feanor deeds were considered to be so grave that he would not be released from Mandos. In all probability his sons, who went on to commit sins, will share his fate. Finwe was permitted to wed Indis on the condition that Miriel never leave Mandos, but when Finwe was murdered by Melkor Miriel had a change of heart, and the Valar permitted her to live again provided Finwe agreed to stay in Mandos for the rest of Time, which he did. Miriel nonetheless went to stay with Vaire the Weaver rather than return to the Elves.

: : : Something that bothers me about all this, who gets to decide who stays and goes...Mandos, alone or all the Valar? It seems very judgemental...

: : Hmmm Hoom... I see it differently. The best analogy I can think of would be a gardener. All fruit develops at its own pace. The gardener would be foolish to pick all the fruit when the first one was ripe. He picks each fruit in its time. We are talking about very intangibles here, so definitions are difficult. Why do they stay in Mandos at all? To in some way recuperate. So perhaps a hospital is a better analogy. Feanor was so marred, so bent in his spirit, that he needs more recuperation. Mandos is doing him a favor by keeping him. Perhaps it takes careful judgement, but that doesn't make it 'judgemental'. The decision of when released isn't how mad Mandos is, it is when will the healing be complete enough.

: : -Steve S.

: Yes, but they say he will be there for all eternity. So thats like giving him 25 with an "L" and no chance for parole...and for what, not giving up the Silmarils, trying to honour his father, going against the all-powerful Valar????

Feanor's crimes were far more serious, particularly the kinslaying though I have always had the feeling that the Valar acted incredibly highhandedly throughout the first and second ages and a lot of the punishments inflicted on those who challenged their power/validity were out of proportion to the crimes committed. They also didn't seem to believe in "crime prevention", letting the Numenoreans build up such steam before they attacked Valinor seems to be a case of "give 'em enough rope and they'll hang themselves". On the other hand the Valar themselves seem to gain in wisdom over the ages, by the third age they are refusing to act directly in the affairs of middle earth, preferring to send emissaries or use "chance". Perhaps even the Valar have to learn.