The White Council

Re: is a medievil ME acceptable in a movie?

Tolkien and Inklings Discussion

: : : : : : : : : : Not being an expert on the dress, armor or of any time period, : : : : : : I can only comment on my common perceptions. On the one hand : : : : : : the film shouldn't look like Ivanhoe or even Excaliber. The : : : : : : characters wear a hodgepodge of boots, trousers, waistcoats or : : : : : : vests, cloaks, and hats along with the chainmail and perhaps : : : : : : some body armor. The Hobbits especially seem to dress in more : : : : : : "modern" styles, though that may have been a leftover from the : : : : : : Hobbit, not to mention the "clock" on Bilbo's mantle...

: : : : : Unfortunately, Jackson's hobbits are dressed in medieval clothing, and I guess we'll have to wait and see if they have clocks. In general I agree with Martin's comments, although the Guards of the Citadel should indeed have an Egyptian look and feel to their helms (they're wearing chainmail, so the Norman knight comparison, conceded by Tolkien, is acceptable in that respect).

: : : : Big excision:

: : : : The ancient Egyptians weren't very overt with their helmets. Indeed, until the Hyksos invasion there is little evidence for them at all. The only helmet much shown is the Blue or War Crown of the king himself - which doesn't resemble those of the Tower Guard in any real way. Most Egyptian helmets seem to have been simple bronze skull-caps worn beneath their traditional head-dress (hetef?) - the stripey cloth with stiff folds. Other Egyptian helmets seem to be composite affairs made of overlapping bronze scales attached to some sort of underlying frame.

: : : : The closest parallel to the descriptions of the helmets of the Tower Guard (ie tall, pointed with wings attached near the browband) would be the mythical winged helmets of Viking romance. : : : : For real helmets the closest would be representations of a type of Celtic helmet with a elongated conical skull and cheek pieces which is known sometimes to have had wing-shaped ornaments attached (excavated examples, plus bas-reliefs on the Roman Arch of Orange in France). Another contender would be a type of Italo-Greek "Attic" helmet much used by the Samnites and other southern Italian peoples which had large bronze wings attached, though as the skull was rounded, not pointed, the parallel with the Dunadan helmets is not as great.

: : : As an experienced fighter (6 years) I can assure you that, BTW, no sane soldier would wear anything wing- or horn-like on his helmet, such appendages will merely catch your enemy's weapon and direct his blow towards your most vulnerable point- your head. Further, the construction required for such strange appendages would weaken the skull of the helmet and rob you of valuable protection. However, horned helmets are known from the bronze age and depicted in a ceremonial function on later Norse tapestries and runestones, and we could thus infer that they could have served the Tower Guard in much the same function (the Danish or British Royal Guards do not enter combat wearing strange and impractical uniforms with bear caps but rather in DPM). : : : NT

: : Though on occasion the desire to give a threatening or imposing display is greater than practical considerations. An excavated Celtic helmet had a high metal plume holder at the top of the skull which ended in a metal bird of prey with articulated wings which would have flapped up and down with the movements of its wearer.

: : Also the Old Guard of Napoleon (grenadiers and chasseurs)went into battle, and fought formidably, wearing the very bearskin caps you mention ;)

: That was then Martin, everyone were dressed up in fancy regimental uniforms (surviving as parade uniforms today). The vikings, too, would go to war dressed in their best clothes to display their wealth and status as well as distinguishing whatevers... helmets, cloaks, tunics, trousers, etc. : As for bird of prey helmets, how can we know it is not ceremonial? It may be a war-helmet, but not a very practical one. However, that would fit well with our general picture of Celts as savage barbarians. : Palle

The lower part of this particular helmet was quite functional, so perhaps the high zoomorphic crest may not have been to much of an encumbrance. The Cimbri or Teutones were described as fighting in helmets with animal and bird decoration, so such helmets may have been used in battle. As the animals on the helmets probably had totemic significance, the wearer may have felt more completely protected with the decoration than without.

"I fear nothing, other than that the sky should fall upon my head" as one Celt is supposed to have said to Alexander the Great.