The White Council

Re: Apocalypse Then

Tolkien and Inklings Discussion

: : Back to Middle Earth. You seem to be saying that the Dunedain : : might have been an aristocracy ruling by a social contract, : : whether conscious or implied. This makes sense in a world where : : there is no instititutionalized religion and some sense of : : direct contact with God (at least with very few : : intermediaries.)

: It has always seemed to me that Elendil's rule in Arnor had to be founded on some sort of contract. When he settled in Eriador, there were already many people living there: Borians in the north, Gwathuirim throughout Minhiriath and as far north as the Great Road and Bree, Beorians north of the Bree-land, the hill-folk in Rhudaur, some sort of men north of Rhudaur, and the mixed-descent peoples living along Baranduin and probably in the hills of Evendim (apparently from a mingling of Dunedain with Beorians and Gwathuirim). Of course, there were also Dunedain who had left Numenor prior to the Downfall. These would probably be living in the Hills of Evendim, the South Downs, and along the Gwathlo as far north as Tharbad.

: How could Elendil have become king of all these peoples without first conquering them? Maybe Gil-galad's authority extended over them and he was some sort of quasi-ruler/protector of these mortal peoples. Hence, he could have presented Elendil to them as a logical king. But even under the auspices of Gil-galad's sponsorship, Elendil must have been required to establish some sort of arrangement with the various peoples.

: : Indeed, you posit a very radical and unheard of thing (unless : : we can interpret the events of 1989-93 in this fashion): the : : rulers saw that they could not uphold their end of the contract : : and thus disolved it, while then acting behind the scenes to : : redeem thenselves.

: [snip historical examples]

: Well, in 1975-9 (when the decisions were made), about all that remained of Arnor's folk were the Shirefolk (Hobbits), the Bree-folk (Gwathuirim and Hobbits), the people of Tharbad, and the Dunedain. Or, at least, those were the groups who survived to the end of the Third Age. The Borians seem to have vanished by this time, and maybe they died out or became the Lossoth. The Beorians and Dunadan-Beorians would have comprised most of Arthedain's common folk. Many of them would have perished in the Great Plague and perhaps the rest died out in the final invasion.

: Aranarth had no city. He wasn't just without an economy. He had no homeland. Fornost Erain had been inhabited by Angmar's creatures and though doubtless cleansed must have been ruined for the Dunedain. Arahael doesn't seem to have been born until 2012. So Aranarth and his brothers must have spent some time wandering around Eriador looking for a place to live. Maybe from 1975-9 they tried to figure out how they could establish a secure home for their people and still protect the Shire, Tharbad, and Bree. It may be that, deciding they couldn't live in the North Downs or Hills of Evendim, they felt they would have settle close to Rivendell, and that would be too far away from the western peoples to permit any sort of realistic governance.

: If we assume the Beorians and Beorian-Dunedain of central Arthedain were wiped out, then there were only three population centers left in Eriador: the Shire, Bree, and Tharbad. The wights would prevent the Dunedain from settling in Tyrn Gorthad, and the South Downs were far removed from the Shire.

: I think geography may have played a key role in the decision. And what if the vast majority of Arnor's people were actually killed in the war? Suppose Aranarth had only a few Dunadan families to start over with? Most of the men would have been killed in the war. How would the women and children build a new city? At least by moving close to Rivendell they would have the help of the Elves (but then, why not live close to Lindon?).

I tend to think that Tolkien had a rather optimistic (or pessimistic if you prefer) view of the ability of fire and the sword and pestilence (Riders of the Apocalypse perhaps?) to eradicate people from the face of the Earth. Pre-modern wars could wreck agricultural systems (eg the Mongols in Iraq) and lead to drastic falls in population, as indeed could plague, and both could lead to the collapse of political, social, and cultural systems. However, I cannot think of any war or pestilence (save in remote island peoples) which led to a total irradication of people from a large area of land. With the exception of perhaps the Dunedain (though the Black Numenoreans were seduced) it was not Sauron's aim to kill humans indiscriminately. He wanted to rule over men and be worshipped by them, not preside over a wilderness.

The scenario of an area as large as Eriador being almost wholly depopulated is, therefore, rather unlikely from parallels with the real world.