The White Council

Rules of succession

Tolkien and Inklings Discussion

: Don't forget that later generations among the kings did fall prey to suspicions, and that the Royal House was denuded partially because if a king became jealous of a potential rival that rival would usually flee to Umbar.

True. Also remember that Elendil and his sons themselves had been objects of similar suspicion and persecution in the latter days of numenor.

: The restriction placed upon the Stewards when Romendacil I created the office -- that they not be of the royal house -- implies that only a descendant of Elros (or Elendil) could hold the throne in Gondor. And such descent would have to be reckoned through the male line. Arvedui's claim on behalf of Firiel was rejected because of this principle, and Hurin's family said to have been of royal origin. If they came of a female line, then they would not have been eligible to hold the throne.

The fact that the crown was not passed on to female descendants is conceded by Arvedui, although he characterizes this as a result of the two realms in exile being constantly beset by strife. The fact that he would make such a claim, based upon the older rules followed in Numenor, leads me to believe that descent through a female line would not necessarily invalidate a claim to the throne, (although it would certainly be contested.) Extrapolating this admittedly tenuous argument leads me to believe that Hurin's house was not descended from Elendil, although they surely were related, and probably descended from the Three Houses of the Edain, hence their royal origins.

: :...As organised religion did not exist, it cannot be their : : sacerdotal character, and as you say they were obviously not : : eunuchs, so perhaps there was some heinous stain on their : : origins which would bar them from the throne. Perhaps a : : distant ancestor had been a Black Numenorean who had changed : : allegiance, or they had intermarried with the folk who were : : cursed by Isildur?

: I don't think a family so honored as Hurin's would be restrained by the disgrace of an ancestor. Social convention seems to prevent that. And Tolkien says that the Stewards kept their bloodline largely pure.

Agreed. It is very unlikely that the House of Stewards had some disgrace that prevented them from ascending the throne, for that same disgrace would preclude them from holding the Stewardship.