The White Council

Re: Rings DO become powerless! (was Re: Fate of the Rings)

Tolkien and Inklings Discussion

: : Can you show me a place where Tolkien explicitly says ALL rings lose ALL power. I just remeber something about all that has been achieved becoming undone. And even this is untrue. All Gandalf's counsels (made with the help of Narya) obviously don't become undone. It's would be a good idea for a story though if they did... imagine Gollum falling into the cracks, and seconds later the Ring is in Sauron's hand and the West defeated...

: I'm afraid David is correct. The lesser rings lost their power when the One was destroyed. In part that's what Galadriel is talking about when she mentions "the long defeat". Whether the Ring is destroyed or returned to Sauron they would lose Lorien, a land where time is held at bay by the power of Galadriel's ring. She and others knew that it was unlikely that the One Ring would remain "lost" forever. As long as Sauron did not possess the One Ring they could safely use the three and hide the knowledge of who held the rings from the Dark Lord. Don't ask how this happens, I just know what Tolkien wrote. The only weak analogy I can come up with is all the Christmas tree lights going out because one of them burnt out. In Sauron's case his was a proprietary ring that unlike a light bulb, could not be replaced.

I think we're talking about two fundamentally different things here. I never claimed that the destruction of the Ring would not cause certain things the other rings had done to become undone. The fate of Lorien was interwoven with that of the One Ring because Galadriel's Ring had been used to protect and create the magic of Lorien. The power of that ring depended in turn on the power of the One Ring. What I am objecting to strongly is the idea that the destruction of the One Ring would instantly immediately undo everything that had ever been achieved with the other rings. There is no evidence for this to my knowledge. Lorien obviously retained some magic. Why else would Arwen go there? Surely there were enough uninhabited corners where she could have gone. This was after the One Ring had been destroyed and after the three rings had gone West. Yet some of that magic was still in Lorien. Certianly in a lesser form and gradually fading, but it didn't go kabumm along with the Nazgul and Barad Dur when the One Ring was destroyed.

: What happened to the posts regarding Saruman's ring? I don't believe we ever reached a conclusion on that topic.

I think we worked out there was just insufficient evidence to judge either way, so you can believ what you want unless Christopher Tolkien digs out further unpublished documents .... (which would be nice ;-))