The White Council

Re: Swash and buckle

Tolkien and Inklings Discussion

: : : : In his treatise 'Brief Instructions' George Silver recommends this very tactic. In the 6th ground of the 6th chapter (on Certain Gripes and Closes) he says that when an opponent presses in on you, you may "...strike your hilt full in his face, bearing your hilt strongly upon him, for you have the advantage of the grip, for so you may break his face with your hilt, & strike up his heels with your left foot, and throw him a great fall...". : : : In other sections of his work he recommends like tactics to be used with the buckler (ie striking your opponent with it, usually after binding his sword with yours). The anonymous Tower Manuscript I.33 (a German fechtbook on sword and buckler from ca. 1290) shows some offensive use of the buckler also. And Talhoffers fechtbuch of 1467 shows both buckler and large shield (nearly the size of the men using them) used both offensively and defensively.

: : This is all very fine in theory, and possibly even under very special circumstances, BUT, have you two tried it? I routinely fight with sword and axe or sword and shield, and I do not let my opponent in close enough for that sort of thing as I will already be at his mercy before it. In theory and special circumstances, true, in practical combat I said and will maintain; it is a move that will get you killed. : : As for bayonet-like shield bosses, Martin, as a scholar of the late westroman empire you must surely have encountered the treatise on warfare with the weird ideas- the one with ox-driven ships and scythe-armed chariots. And look at Hitler's wonderweapons. That mad scientists have theorised over weapons does not make them practically usable. Just as architects' drawings for houses are often practicably undoable. : : NT

: Yes I have tried (and sometimes even successfully applied ;)) a variety of these techniques. I have practiced various forms of swordsmanship for going on twenty years. This includes armoured and unarmoured, single sword, sword and shield, sword and buckler, sword and dagger, case of swords, and two handed sword using steel, blunts, wasters, rattan, boffers, foils and schlagers. I also fenced in high school for several semesters, and studied a form of Japanese swordsmanship (Shinkendo) for a couple of years. To relay a true circumstance: ten years ago two members of my reenactment group were engaging in some free sparring with baskethilted wasters we had put together when one got overly rambunctious, lost control, and broke the two front teeth of the person he was sparring with, using (though he did not know it) the technique I described above when I quoted George Silver (needless to say he was not allowed to participate in any swordplay for quite some time after that). Now do not get me wrong, I do NOT say that these techniques are easy to apply. Indeed, they are difficult to learn, but with practice and training they can be used and can be quite practical. The manuals I have mentioned (and a variety of others) are more than just theory, in my opinion. These are actual historical manuscripts detailing how to fight with swords and other weapons put together by actual masters of defence who lived (and died) by what they taught. They did much more than just 'play' at swords such as you or I do. They actually used them in real combat and would have taught such techniques as they found useful and practical to their students.

You will mark that I conceeded that in very special circumstances those techniques could be useful, in order to survive those special circumstances a master would need to know the technique- if the circumstance ever sprang up. I too have caught a shield to my mouth by accident (fortunately merely with a broken lip). But the special situation allowing such an attack only very rarely arises, a shield is much more effectively applied to "spearhunt" the opponent and catch his weapon between his own and your shields while you put your own weapon to work on him- after all, what would you rather be hit by, a sword or a shield? And Martin, you are moving into the two-weapon combination that I have found very lethal to me or my opponent, my axe (that I use in my left) does not have a 91,5 cm shaft for attacks (well that too, as well as for intimidation), but for enabling me to parry attacks to my leg with the lower 20- 35 cm. However, this technique is an aggresive one with little possibility for parries, you either attack and win or stay passive and die, though you sometimes die on the attack too if your opponent is lucky (or good), and a lucky strike can win for you even when passive. NT aka Vagn the Violent, aka Palle