The White Council

Re: Isildur's Folly

Tolkien and Inklings Discussion

: : : I was struggling with this problem for some time, but : : : yesterday finally found relief when searching for some other : : : thing from "Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age". There : : : it is said that after the Plague, Minas Ithil was emptied of : : : people. So I think my previous view that the status of Minas : : : Ithil was greatly diminished by this time is now quite : : : justified. I'd like to think, as the passage I've referred : : : to seems to suggest, that Minas Ithil was totally empty (with : : :a small garrison at the most), but this wouldn't justify a : : : two-year siege.

: The Great Plague occurred in 1636. Minas Ithil fell to the Nazgul in 2002 after a 2 year siege. One sign that it was still an important outpost is the fact it contained the Palantir.

: : : The biggest headache for me is that, if Minas Ithil was : : : populated, it feels out of character (ignoble) that Gondor : : : should allow even a small part of its people to be destroyed : : : thus, when they certainly could have done something about it : : : had they mustered their strength (for which they had time). : : : My explanation is that perhaps there was some way (maybe a : : : secret path in the mountains) in which those besieged had : : : hope of getting out, if defence proved impossible.

: [snip]

: Gondor had lost other territories before, and that includes whole populations (as when the Wainriders overran the eastern lands where Gondor had settled many Northmen). Gondor's power in 2000-2 was not what it had been during the final war against Angmar. Then Gondor had the aid of the Eotheod, and the Elves of Lindon, Imladris, and Lorien were still powerful enough to raise armies. Angmar wasn't just defeated by Gondor, but by an alliance of many nations. Earnil didn't have those allies to call upon in 2000. The Elves of Lorien had already mostly fled over Sea. The Eotheod had migrated north. Cirdan and Elrond were far away and presumably couldn't raise armies in time to help Gondor even if they were inclined to do so (they might have been -- Earnil may not have been inclined to ask for help).

HEY? Gondor's power not as great as it had been in the War aginst Angmar, that was only 25 years before and they were fighting far from home and didn't send their whole army, they were much stroger on their home tuf and therefore you can assume ut was a pretty danred evil and powerful army that assailed the Tower of the Moon, Gondor was (oribably) assailed on other fronts by enemies loyal to Sauron to divert troop strength, and sieges often end with treachery - once old witch king and his boys get in and slaughter the inhabitants, Gondor have to lay seige, and as the city was very strong (built by those nice Numenorean Exiles in the early third age) they were stumped really.. Elves don't get involved in the Third Age unless they have to - in Arnor they were in fear of losing their strongholds - the Havens and Rivendell, they have nothing to gain by getting involved in Gondor except the loss of more Elvish blood to sort out Human problems (who are going to inherit dominance over them anyway)