The White Council

Re: How exactly did the silly thing work?

Tolkien and Inklings Discussion

: Huh? What makes you think that? After all, Gil-Galad and Elendil could overthrow Sauron even without the Ring, Sauron feared Aragorn, Galadriel seemed quite certain that she could become ruler of Middle earth if she took the Ring etc, etc...

What Galadriel thought she could achieve and what she REALLY could achieve are two entirely different things.

Gil-galad and Elendil overthrew Sauron because they destroyed him through military might first, which forced Sauron into a position that was just not his scene. He didn't like going mono-e-mono with other beings. Not after having his butt kicked by Huan. Gil-galad and Elendil overthrowing Sauron had to take place allow LotR to take place. OK that's a cop out I know, but either way I believe Elendil and Gil-galad got lucky. Sauron was a Maia in the same sort of vein as Eonwe, Osse and Arien and I don't think any of the Eldar, not even Feanor (who is my absolutely most fav character) could have defeated, and I'm not even considering the sort of power Sauron had with the One Ring.

: It seems that if indeed this was the case, then no-one in the book knew it.

On the contrary.

Gandalf says that Sauron fears the wise having the One, because there are those among them with 'strength of will' to use it. This only means that should they try to master it the member of the wise would not immediately capitulate to the power of the One and would instead be able to use the power against Sauron. Gandalf does not say that the 'wise' one would be able to overthrow Sauron. Even Elrond is only speculating that 'should' on of the wise overthrown Sauron, etc, etc, etc, not that they 'could'.

As it happens I think that, aside from Gandalf, the only Eldar that would have a chance of overthrowing Sauron should they take the ring IS Galadriel. She was almost the equal of Feanor, and with the one to back her up, well maybe, just maybe.

As for a mortal trying it. No way! I still maintain that not even Aragorn, whom I believe to have been the greatest mortal living at that time, would have been able to defeat Sauron.

: To overthrow him, whoever would do it wouldn't necessarily have to personally fight Sauron.

But they would. Militarily Sauron was on top. There's no question about that. he had too many eastern and southern allies. You just have to read 'The Black Gate Opens' to get some idea of just how badly the West was outnumbered. And they still would have been even if they had left the western cities unmanned.

And when I say defeat, I do mean, if it came to single combat for dominance over the other and the One Ring itself. Any anyway I am only agreeing with Tolkien himself. I think it was in response to a letter from a Naomi (some-one-or-other) - can't remember her surname, in fact I'm not sure that it was even her, but he says it in one of his letters - that no mortal could have stood up to, kept the One Ring from or succeeded in an attempt to overthrow Sauron, if they met face to face. Tolkien states that only Gandalf with the One Ring had any real chance of doing that and he ads a few Eldar names on as very faint possibilities, which I believe Galadriel and Elrond were a part of.

Regards

Padster