The White Council

Re: Eldar of the Second Age - whence so many?

Tolkien and Inklings Discussion

: : But I have : : difficulties in seeing how there could have been a significant : : number of the Noldor left. So did they just reproduce : : (unusually?)fast in the second age, of have I underestimated : : the size of the Balar-refuge, or have I overestimated the : : proportion of the Noldor among the populations of the SA- : : realms, or what?

: The rate of reproduction for the Elves has never been discernable, although Tolkien said it slowed down as the ages past. Why would you feel a swift increase in population would have been unusually fast for the Elves?

Because if they had been reproducing at the same rate since their awakening, all the lands would have been packed with elves, since they were deathless.

: The Noldor who reached Middle-earth (apparently considerably fewer than the 90 per cent of Amanians who rebelled and fled into exile owing to losses in battle, at sea, and during the crossing of the Helcaraxe) increased their population considerably during the first few centuries of the First Age of the Sun. They probably experienced a drastic dropoff in child-bearing after the Dagor Bragollach, since they didn't like raising children during time of war. Figure the period of stability in which the most children were born would be from FA 20 to FA 450, or about 430 years. Owing for the way Eldar liked to space out their children, that should still leave enough time for 2 generations to be born.

: From the beginning of the Second Age to the founding of Eregion was about 700 years. That should have been sufficient time for 3 and maybe 4 generations of births. The Noldor most likely to want to stay in Middle-earth may have been those who were born there, so perhaps there was a greater percentage of "young couples" among the Noldor who remained in Middle-earth than there were among the Noldor who first arrived in exile.

: And don't forget that the Isle of Balar was constantly being reinforced by new Elves who fled the northern wars. Many of Cirdan's people were lost when Eglarest and Brithombar fell, but at least several shipfulls survived (and perhaps we're looking at dozens or even hundreds of ships fleeing from the fall of the Falas). Noldor from Dorthonion joined them. We know this because the two messengers Cirdan sent to Nargothrond were from Angrod's people. Many Sindar also found their way to Balar, or to the Havens of Sirion, from which Arvernien later emerged.

: The community of Arvernien must have numbered in the thousands, since Tuor and Idril led nearly 1,000 survivors from Gondolin there, and many survivors from Doriath also settled there. These would have mingled with earlier survivors from Nargothrond and Hithlum.

: Since Balar itself was never threatened, the Elves may have actually been raising new families there. Hence, by the end of the war there could have been tens of thousands of Elves living on Balar (at least 20,000 but probably no more than 50,000).

Thank you. I'm somewhat more comforted now.