The White Council

Re: Orcs & Dwarves?

Tolkien and Inklings Discussion

: If I remember correctly dwarves were not even awake at the time of the original orc making.

As we know, it was decreed that they would sleep and wake only after the Elves had awakened. After scouring the SIl, I still haven't found a definitive answer as to when the Dwarves awoke. The closed thing I can find is in Chapter 10: Of the Sindar; pg 91.

"It came to pass during the second age of the captivity of Melkor, that the Dwarves came over the Blue Mountains of Ered Luin into Beleriand. They named themselves Khazad, but the Sindar called them Naugrim...Far to the East were the most ancient dwellings of the Naugrim..."

Later it is stated that Khazad-dum, the Greatest of the Dwarf Mansions, already existed in the Misty Mountains far to the East. A few pages later(pg 93), we are told that the Dwarves "told of fell creatures in the land East of the mountains" and that not long afterwards "Evil creatures came into Beleriand...and among them were Orcs."

We know that the Dwarf fathers awoke after the Elves. We know that the Dwarf fathers awoke in different places. We know that the Dwarves had "ancient" dwellings by the time they arrived in Beleriand. Ancient dwellings, Khazad-dum already the greatest and new mansions in Ered Luin, indicate that Dwarves had a large and perhaps far-flung population. It also indicates that Dwarves were not new-comers, but had been awake for nearly as long as the elves.

We know that Melkor was aware of the Elves awakening before any other Valar was aware. We know that he sent his servants to spy on, and waylay Elves. It appears that he had been capturing Elves from the very moment they had awakened.

We know that Orcs were bred shorty before Melkor's capture. We know that Orc population had been increasing during the two plus ages of Melkor's captivity. We know that orc population had increased to the point that they were begining to enter Beleriand,shortly after the Dwarves entered, and were probably already known to elves and dwarves east of Ered Luin. We know that shortly after Melkor's return, it didn't take too long for him to field armies of orcs against the elves.

It is possible that Melkor was also aware of Dwarves awakening, and was also spying on and capturing Dwarves. This would be even more likely if one of Dwarf Fathers had awakened in lands near Melkor's earthy domain.

Nothing clear-cut about when the Dwarves awoke, but nothing to rule out their being used along with Elves to breed the race known as Orcs.