The White Council

A few things to consider . . .

Tolkien and Inklings Discussion

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: I disagree. The main slaughter came at night, when the horses would have been a hinderance, since they cannot fight well in the dark.

First, the main salughter did not come at night, though there were several tense battles:

"Far over the Great River, and the brown Lands, leagues upon grey leagues away, the Dawn came, red as flame. Loud rang the hunting-horns to greet it. The Riders of Rohan sprang suddenly to life.

And:

"Then with a great cry the Riders charged from the East . . . "

Finally:

"There he was slan at last by Eomer, the Third Marshal of Rohan, who dismounted and fought him sword to sword."

Second there were not a thousand orcs, but more like three hundred total, some Northerners, and some Isengarders. And there were perhaps a hundred-fifty Riders in the battle, as Tolkien recounts several fell and:

"Yes," said Legolas, "there are one hundred and five." Who remained post battle to greet Aragorn, Legolas and Gimli.

And the battle had begun since the Riders had first caught sight of the orcs:

"A few of the riders appeared to be bowmen, skilled at shooting from a running horse. Riding swiftly in to range they shot arrows at the Orcs that straggled behind, and several of them fell; then the riders wheeled away out of the range of the answering bows of their enemies . . ."

". . . Night came without the Riders closing in for battle. Many orcs had fallen, but fully two hundred remained."

:Even well trained horses will be scared to gallop in the dark (and it WAS very dark, since there was not enough light to shoot by).

Next, there was enough light to shoot by:

"All around the knoll on which the Orcs were gathered little watch-fires sprang up, golden-red in the darkness, a complete ring of them. They were within a long bowshot, but the riders did not show themselves against the light, and the Orcs wasted many arrows shooting at the fires, until Ugluk stopped them."

And the Riders appeared to be amazing archers even in the gloom of night:

"The sword rang faintly, and glinted a little in the light of the fire away to his left. An arrow came whistling out of the gloom: it was aimed with skill, or guided by fate, and it peirced his right hand."

:Once night settled, I doubt if the horses would have made a huge difference. Maybe they still helped, but to what degree?

Actually, it seems that Tolkien had a high opinion of the ability of the Rohan horses and the Riders reliance upon them at night:

"There was a quick beat of hoofs, and even as Grishnakh leaped up and ran, he was ridden down and a spear passed trhough him. He gave a hideous shivering cry and lay still.

"The hobbits remained flat on the ground, as Grishnakh had left them. Another horseman came rising swiftly to his comrades aid. Whether because of some special keeness of sight, or because of some other sense, the horse lifted and sprang lightly over them; but its rider did not see them . . ."

And:

"Mauhur had apparently arrived and was attacking the beseigers. There was the sound of galloping horses. The Riders were drawing in their ring close round the knoll, risking the orc-arrows, so as to prevent any sortie, while a company rode off to deal with the newcomers."

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So all in all, the orcs didn't stand much of a chance against Riders who attacked mercilessly and at night with their horses. Tough to combat that, and the fact that they did slay some of the Riders speaks of their prowess in battle. But my original statment was that from the standpoint of your average orc battling your average man, on foot, an orc would be an equal match for that man.

-RobRoy