The White Council

Re: My thoughts on the Mouth of Sauron

Tolkien and Inklings Discussion

: : The Mouth is supposed to be a Black Numenorean, a sorcerer who used magic to extend his age from the Second Age to the Third. But it was stated in Akallabeth that the magicians of Numenor tried, unsuccessfully, to extend their lifspans through the use of magic. So it was impossible without the use of a Ring of Power, and in that case the body still decayed or disappeared, as in the Witch-King. So how did the Mouth stay so young and fresh through two ages? My idea is: there was more than one Mouth of Sauron. They acted as the same person, and when it is said that he/they had forgotten his/their name, they had put it behind them and ceased to think of themselves as themselves but as as the last Mouth.

: : What do you all think?

: The Mouth of Sauron was probably no older than Aragorn or Denethor. The idea that he had survived through the Second and Third ages comes from the passage in which it is stated that 'he entered into the service of the Dark Tower when it first arose again'. Many people take this passage to mean that he became a servant of Sauron when he returned to Mordor following the Downfall of Numenor in S.A. 3319. However, this idea has been debated ad nauseum in the alt.fan.tolkien newsgroup with the general consensus being that the phrase 'when it first arose again' refers to the rebuilding of the Barad-dur in T.A. 2951, making the Mouth somewhere around 80-90 years old ((3018 - 2951) + ~20 years) at the time of the War of the Ring. It is doubtful he could have been much older since we know from PoME that even members of the high nobility (such as the Princes of Dol Amroth) only lived to be about 100 years old - sorcery or not.

We could push the Mouth's age close to 100 (3018 - 2951 = 67 + 30yrs),if we wanted to, and still be within the maximum lifespan.

The one thing we don't know is Sauron's effect on the ageing process of those with whom he had prolonged contact, or physical nearness. It is possible that over the years a small amount of Sauron's spirit with find its way into a human body. It could have a profound effect on the body, either ageing it prematurely or extending its life.

If the latter were the case, then calculating the Mouth's age becomes an impossibility. I say this for the following reason. The Mouth says he 'he entered into the service of the Dark Tower when it first arose again'. This would not automatically mean that he entered the service of Sauron at that time. He may well have served as one of Sauron's close servants during the late Second Age and was only elevated to his position of Mouth when the tower rose in TA 2951.