The White Council

Re: My thoughts on the Mouth of Sauron

Tolkien and Inklings Discussion

: : The Mouth of Sauron was probably no older than Aragorn or Denethor. The idea that he had survived through the Second and Third ages comes from the passage in which it is stated that 'he entered into the service of the Dark Tower when it first arose again'. Many people take this passage to mean that he became a servant of Sauron when he returned to Mordor following the Downfall of Numenor in S.A. 3319. However, this idea has been debated ad nauseum in the alt.fan.tolkien newsgroup with the general consensus being that the phrase 'when it first arose again' refers to the rebuilding of the Barad-dur in T.A. 2951, making the Mouth somewhere around 80-90 years old ((3018 - 2951) + ~20 years) at the time of the War of the Ring. It is doubtful he could have been much older since we know from PoME that even members of the high nobility (such as the Princes of Dol Amroth) only lived to be about 100 years old - sorcery or not.

: We could push the Mouth's age close to 100 (3018 - 2951 = 67 + 30yrs),if we wanted to, and still be within the maximum lifespan.

Or lessen it to 50 or so, assuming that the reconstruction of the Barad-dur began in TA 2951 and continued for 20 or 30 years. In this case the Mouth may not have entered Sauron's service until the rebuilding was finished - ca. TA 2980.

: The one thing we don't know is Sauron's effect on the ageing process of those with whom he had prolonged contact, or physical nearness. It is possible that over the years a small amount of Sauron's spirit with find its way into a human body. It could have a profound effect on the body, either ageing it prematurely or extending its life.

Sauron spent 57 years in close proximity to Ar-Pharazon, yet his presence did not prolong the lifespan of the King:

'But the years passed, and the King felt the shadow of death approach, as his days lengthened; and he was filled with fear and wrath.'

The only parallel I can think of would be the case of Tuor, but as noted in The Silmarillion, his was a unique case:

'In those days Tuor felt old age creep upon him, and ever a longing for the deeps of the Sea grew stronger in his heart. Therefore he built a great ship, and he named it Earrame, which is Sea-Wing; and with Idril Celebrindal he set sail into the sunset and the West, and came no more into any tale or song. But in after days it was sung that Tuor alone of mortal Men was numbered among the elder race, and was joined with the Noldor, whom he loved; and his fate is sundered from the fate of Men.'

: If the latter were the case, then calculating the Mouth's age becomes an impossibility. I say this for the following reason. : The Mouth says he 'he entered into the service of the Dark Tower when it first arose again'. This would not automatically mean that he entered the service of Sauron at that time. He may well have served as one of Sauron's close servants during the late Second Age and was only elevated to his position of Mouth when the tower rose in TA 2951.

As I noted earlier, this subject has been debated at length in the Tolkien newsgroups. If you have a few hundred hours to spare, search the Usenet.