The White Council

Re: Speaking of Orcrist...

Tolkien and Inklings Discussion

: : : : : The thread about Glamdring and Orcrist got me wondering something. How could Thorin have wielded Orcrist? If it was a main battle sword designed for lords of the Noldor, wouldn't it have been too bulky for Thorin to have carried comfortably, much less used? Hobbits were supposed to be "a little shorter than Dwarves," yet a dagger sufficed for a short sword for Bilbo. I'd love some insight from some of you weaponry experts out there.

: : : : I don't claim to be weaponry expert. There are daggers, and then there are daggers. Some medieval and ancient daggers had blades up to 15 or more inches long.

: : : : Thorin wielding Orcrist doesn't present a problem in my opinion. I see Orcrist having a blade no longer than three feet. As such, Thorin could have wielded it in the manner of hand and one-half swor or a two handed sword. We know dwarves used mattocks and axes in combat. I think there are references to two-handed use. However, it is pretty much a moot point since I don't remember Thorin ever having the opportunity to weild Orcrist in combat.

: : : He didn't wield it at the battle of five armies?

: : No. Thanduril's elves took it from him at the time of his capture in Mirkwood. It was returned placed with Thorin in his tomb following his death.

: : : As to physically wielding it - I don't see a problem either, I picture the dwarfs, though short, as having human sized hands so the hilt wouldn't be a problem, as to the length, one needs only to look at those god-awful two-handed claymores the Scotties used to fight with, not to mention the flamberge carried by German mercenaries which were commonly over 5 feet long, to know that sometimes longer is better...

: : : I too wonder how the orcs recognized the sword though... it would have to be from the runes, which would mean grunt-level orcs are rune-literate, unless the legend of the sword had been passed down with such a meticulous description (hard to imagine that quality among orcs) that it was burned into their minds - perhaps used in bedtime stories to frightne orclets?

: : : I also wonder about their glowing when enemies were near, I mean what was it that set them off? the smell?

: : I don't think the great goblin took time to look at or read any runes. When he saw the sword he recognized it. I also appears that the goblins who took the sword from Thorin did not recognize it. It seems they would have told the great goblin something like 'he was carrying Orcrist' and not 'he was carrying this', if they had.

: So how did he recognize it!?!?

: : I always thought the glowing of the sword's blade was somehow linked to the presence of Morgorth's evil taint, or something like that.

: Probably so....

I just put a point on the 'Foehammer' thread - the swords may only have fallen into Trollish claws late in the T.A, and may therefore be easily recognizable, or am I forgetting something??