The White Council

Re: The Three.... again

Tolkien and Inklings Discussion

: : : : : : :big snip : : : : : : : : The only reason I can think of to solve this problem is that when Sauron instructed Celebrimbor in the making of rings he laid in an "escape" function. Like "if you by some reason manage to destroy my ring then yours will go too" Just incase somone destroyed Sauron he would take away a lot of his own power too. For coming generations so to speak. : : : : : : : : Is this possible? : : : : : : : : Maglor

: : : : : : : I dunno, could be. Still as far as I am concerned, the potential for new rings is there, and with it the explanation for stories of 'fey' folk who are encounteted at a distance and then vanish - this lore helps 'protect' the fading realms of elves well into the domination of men. : : : : : : : Dave

: : : : : : Hope you don't mind me jumping into your discussion. : : : : : : Yes, Sauron did put an "escape function" into the knowledge he gave Celebrimbor. He also put in funtion that would "slave" any rings made using that knowledge to the One Ring. This is clearly stated in the last paragraph on page 287 of the SIL.

: : : : : : I agree the potential to make new rings would still exist. However, I think they would never be close to the power of the rings made in the Second Age.

: : : : : I agree with the escape function also, BUT, that would imply that it would have been devised before the one, which sounds pretty damn hard. Think about it, you're instructing little Celeb on ring making, all the while plotting to make your own ring to rule them. So you mislead him in such a subtle way as to not alert him, and still manage to make it fit in with your own designs. The escape function is really an analougy into computer programming practice, and as any programmer will know, merely having a good design concept will NOT suffice. It may take several overhauls, several tweaks, several rounds of intense changing before any two programs will bond seamlessly. This would mean that Sauron would have to have BOTH rings (well, the One, and any he wants to enslave), and he would have to keep changing both rings so that they become attuned to each other. : : : : : Hmm, this analougy actually sucks. =) : : : : : What I mean to say, is that this is one damn difficult job. : : : : : And the idea is pretty damn complex.....

: : : : : What was the original premis again...? : : : : : Oh, yeah, escape functions. : : : : : Okai, all it takes, is someone bright enough to dig up the fundaments behind ring-lore, and delete the bits which Big-Bad-Ol' sauron put in, and voila! We have a new ring...

: : : : : Gandalf

: : : : I can see Sauron having everything worked out before he gave the knowledge to Celbrimbor. All the little identical exec files intergrated into the rings. Sitting there waiting to activated.

: : : : The elves made a lot of rings,and Sauron may have had one that he used in adjusting the One Ring. Some adjustments and tweaking of the One Ring, and there you are. Difficult, perhaps, but we are not talking about a mortal being doing the adjustments.

: : : : As to making a new ring, all those Big-Bad bits may have been so intergrated into design of the rings that if you took them out the ring wouldn't work. If it did work, it may not be the way you thought it would work.

: : : : I don't know about you, but this on going Ring Technology discussion is one that I have really enjoyed.

: : : Teeheehee, like intergrating IE4 into Windows, and arguing that it's NOT FOR MONOPOLISTIC PURPOSES, but an intergral part of Microsoft's mission statement... : : : ahh, i'll buy that.

: : : BUT, you must consider that there were so many rings of various designs, and the fact that Sauron obviously knew very little about the Three. He never really knew where they were, even though, I would hazard a guess that at least 2 of the 3 were present at the cracks of Doom, when His finger was chopped off.

: : : Is it possible for one generic ring to control all the rings in the world? Okai, maybe. But considering that some of those rings have never been seen by Sauron b4, and that he wasn't aware of the existance of some of the others, well.....

: : : And this fail safe autodelete button.... hmm, that is certainly....interesting.....

: : : Gandalf

: : Way way back up the thread, someone said that the three could not be duplicated, that technology and achievement declined with each age of the world - hogwash!! Middle Earth is OUR earth, are we supposed to be going 'backwards' in technology?? : : Just cos the elves were fading, it doesn't mean they or men or dwarves were too 'thick' to rediscover ring-lore. : : Also, there are three Istari in Middle-Earth in the Fourth Age, easily capable of taking up Sarumans study. : : Don Q

: Bravo! Someone sees some sense!

When did magic equal technology and when did magic need to be compatiable with common sense?