The White Council

Re: Come off it

Tolkien and Inklings Discussion

: : : : The discussion is on whether another elf CAN come forth, put forward mighty powers, and make another cool artefact. : : : : Well, I think that it's highly plausible, since there is nothing saying that the ability to make Rings have been totally lost. Ditto for the other artefacts.

: : : OK, let me rephrase my response. Who among the Elves of the Fourth Age would possess the knowledge and power to create such artifacts? The creation of items of power seems to have been the pervue of the Noldor (with a few First Age exceptions).

: : : : As for the Elessar, that's a controversial issue, because there were in fact TWO Elessars. Celebrimbor's one was a second, a copy. So that in itself shows that mighty feats CAN be duplicated....

: : : Not truly duplicated. The power of the second Elessar was less than that of the first, having trapped the light of an older sun.

: : You still don't see the point. It could easily have been said at Da. Vinci's funeral "Who now will ever achieve as much as he has?" And I guess the same could be said of Archimedes, Socretes, ad nauseum. When the greats die, it does not mean that greatness died with them. We are not intoduced to everyone in the fourth age. Tolkien never delved that far. Do you know who reforged Narsil? I do not. Who says that s/he cannot reach prominence as the next Feanor, greater than even Celebrimbor? : : Who says that someone will not take up Saruman's research, and recreate the rings of power?

: : The point is, the power is out there, just waiting for someoen with enough knowledge and wisdom to harness. The possibility of the rings working has already been proven. And in a world with infinite diversity in infinite combinations, who says that a mighty smith won't be born tomorrow?

: : It is HIGHLY possible that someone with great strength of will, and great insight will come along and recreate a ring.

: : Gandalf

: Finally catching on to the will concept?

You don't seem to get it, do you? Having a strong will to live and create is certainly something admirable, and something which can lead to success, but in the end, it's talent and hard work which wins through. A strong will and desire can equal hard work, or at least result in it.

Bobby Fischer was (is) arguably the best chess player in history. His will was iron clad. In an age where draws among grandmasters were the norm, he won 20 STRAIGHT GAMES from the BEST players of his day. He dropped out of school, and dedicated his life to achieving the World Champ mantle. THAT, is a strong will. However, merely having a strong desire for something doesn't cut it. Neither does talent alone. What will determine the successor to Celebrimbor will be a)talent, and b)desire. First and foremost, a wise enough smith has to take up the challenge. Secondly, there must be a perchant for hard work, which can be called a strong will. You don't get it do you? I can work as hard as anyone but still not achieve what they achieve. Mere will alone will NOT get you places. The Silmaril and Rings were made with knowledge, wisdom, researched lore, and lastly a desire on the smith's part. It was not merely the WILL which made things.

Gandalf