The White Council

Re: Come off it

Tolkien and Inklings Discussion

: : : : : The discussion is on whether another elf CAN come forth, put forward mighty powers, and make another cool artefact. : : : : : Well, I think that it's highly plausible, since there is nothing saying that the ability to make Rings have been totally lost. Ditto for the other artefacts.

: : : : OK, let me rephrase my response. Who among the Elves of the Fourth Age would possess the knowledge and power to create such artifacts? The creation of items of power seems to have been the pervue of the Noldor (with a few First Age exceptions).

: : : : : As for the Elessar, that's a controversial issue, because there were in fact TWO Elessars. Celebrimbor's one was a second, a copy. So that in itself shows that mighty feats CAN be duplicated....

: : : : Not truly duplicated. The power of the second Elessar was less than that of the first, having trapped the light of an older sun.

: : : You still don't see the point. It could easily have been said at Da. Vinci's funeral "Who now will ever achieve as much as he has?" And I guess the same could be said of Archimedes, Socretes, ad nauseum. When the greats die, it does not mean that greatness died with them. We are not intoduced to everyone in the fourth age. Tolkien never delved that far. Do you know who reforged Narsil? I do not. Who says that s/he cannot reach prominence as the next Feanor, greater than even Celebrimbor? : : : Who says that someone will not take up Saruman's research, and recreate the rings of power?

: : : The point is, the power is out there, just waiting for someoen with enough knowledge and wisdom to harness. The possibility of the rings working has already been proven. And in a world with infinite diversity in infinite combinations, who says that a mighty smith won't be born tomorrow?

: : : It is HIGHLY possible that someone with great strength of will, and great insight will come along and recreate a ring.

: : : Gandalf

: : Finally catching on to the will concept?

: Gandalf, you have my full support in this debate. : Fourth age - who has the strength of will to create such an item?? Well, Celeborn is around, although I doubt he has the power or will, his role seems to be as a guardian of elvish rights in Middle-Earth, not as a smith. : I think the smiths of Rivendell possibly who reforged Narsil may have been able to create something after careful study and certainly Rivendell was inhabited in the Fourth Age. : We don't know which specific elves were left - perhaps some of the smiths of eregion who assisted in forging the originals were amongst the refugees of imladris (very probable). : Or perhaps the Elessar was given in time by the Telcontari to the fading elves as they would clearly have more use for such things...... : Don Quixote

Thankd Don, I'm glad someone is listening to what I'm saying! Ahhh, I know that sometimes I can be more eloquent, but hey, looks like we're gonna have to spell this out for them... Right, batten down the hatches, we're in for a long haul....

Gandalf