The White Council

Re: Into the fire

Tolkien and Inklings Discussion

: : Ok You didn't ask me. But I can tell you why there was mistrust : : and hurt between the elves and the dwarves. The elves knew exactly what the origins of the dwarves were, and because of this origin they believed that the dwarves were like animals in that when they died they were simply dead that they had no soul for lack of a better word. The dwarves believed they did have : : something to look forward to after death but they had no proof. It goes to the very heart of their relationship. Elves first born of Ulvatar Dwarves adopted... to be discarded upon death

: Dwarven origins may have played a part,but maybe not for the reason you state. The elves would know that Dwarves were created first. While the Elves were the first born, the Dwarves were the first to have life. Also, the dwarves were not created by Eru. They were created by an Ainur, doing something he wasn't supposed to do. Perhaps this also colored the Elven attitudes toward dwarves.

: However, there were enough reasons for a deep mistrust to develope. The hunting of the Petty Dwarves by the Elves, Mim's betrayal, everything concerning the Naughilar(sp?)and perhaps some other incidents we don't know about. Thorin & Co's treatment by Thranduril was no doubt spread throughout Dwarfdom.

: Also, from the begining dwarves had more contact and dealings with men. The elves, for their part, only held one group of men in high regard during the second and third ages. Other men had betrayed the elves, many had been under the influence of Morgorth, and now were under Sauron's influence. Since dwarves delt with men, the potential for exchange of information readily existed, and with it came the possibility for betrayal, accidental or planned. : Just some thoughts~Aelmer

I don't know if the Elves really did know the origins of the Dwarves. Certainly the Sindar didn't, as evidenced by their hunting of the Noegyth Nibin and their shock and surprise when the first of the Dwarves of Belegost and Nogrod came West over the mountains. If they learned of their origins, it was only later, though I suppose the Noldor would have learned of them while in the Undying Lands. I think their mistrust of each other just stems from how different they were. Elves and Men had much more in common then Elves and Dwarves.