The White Council

Dwarvish creativity (was Re: Dwarves and Elves a clash of personality?)

Tolkien and Inklings Discussion

: All men appear to be descended from common ancestors, the Elves : and Dwarves were the products of two separate creations. A : basic similarity of musical taste can be expected in all : humans. Also song and music played a more significant role in : Middle Earth than in this world - the Ainur sang material : creation into existence.

Actually, the Ainur only sang themes for Iluvatar. He created the Vision based on their themes (which he had taught them anyway) and then it was he who created the universe.

But song was important to all the races, including the Dwarves.

: The desire to create is not divisive here, it is the limited : repertoire of the Dwarves' creative abilities which is - and : the degree of obsessiveness. The Elves created things for the : beauty they, and others could then appreciate, in this they : were copying Eru the prime creator, the Dwarves, in contrast, : seem to be driven by some inner force to create. It is : believable that a Dwarf could make some wondrous object then : hide it away for personal gloating, an Elf would want to : display his work to his community for their enjoyment (before : their theft the Silmarils were displayed for the benefit of Elf : and Ainu). The Elves also created in other ways - song, : poetry, history and other non physical media.

Dwarves also created things merely for the beauty they could appreciate. And they gave gifts freely (witness Mim's compliment to Turin, who said he'd have paid for his son's life with gold if he had it, and the gift Azaghal made of the Dragon-helm that eventually became an heirloom of the Hadorians).

The Dwarves did not create anything like the Silmarils or Rings of Power so far as we know. But the histories we have are mostly Elvish histories. We don't really know what the Dwarves' limits were.

: How natural were Dwarf-delvings? The descriptions of Moria : give the impression that most of it was unnatural in finish. : Menegroth in contrast was described as like an underground : forest grove.

Menegroth was fashioned by Elves adn Dwarves. So was Nargothrond. Thranduil's halls are generally regarded to have been made in imitation of the more ancient Elf cities.

: The basic kinship between Elves and Men was admitted by the : Eldar before they met any men - they new the "late-comers" were : equally "Children of Illuvatar" just as they were. When the : first contact was made, Finrod listened to the humans sing he : then picked up one of their instuments and communicated with : them through song. The Elves and Men had a common ground on : which to meet, I would submit that Elves and Dwarves had much : less.

This is certainly true.

: The Elves found the Edain physically attractive - tall and : sturdy with a fleeting (to them) beauty. They admired the : courage loyalty and prowess of the human warriors, who it : transpired could rise to heights of heroic grandeur to equal : the very best of their own folk. They even envied them that : they could leave the circles of the world, and that they had a : destiny known only to Eru.

The Elves also admired the courage of the Dwarves, and their steadfastness as allies. But Dwarves and Elves were strange to each other nonetheless. Still, Dwarves and Noldor had much in common, and that is why the Noldor are held to have gotten along with the Dwarves better than the Sindar (who got along with them quite well for the equivalent of thousands of years).

: What could the Elves admire in the Dwarves? A grim courage and surpassing craftsmanship, not much more.