The White Council

Re: How tough were orcs, trolls, and balrogs?

Tolkien and Inklings Discussion

: I've always wondered how tough they were because The Enemy had thousands of orcs, hundreds of trolls, and at one time many Balrogs. You would think they would be tough but look at all the evidence against them: Feanor must have killed many of them in his attempt to reach Angband, he then goes on to slay several Balrogs and fight Gothmog.

I don't recall Feanor killing several Balrogs. He definately had no trouble mowing down orcs, but it caused him to overextend himself, and ultimately to be surrounded and killed. Also, it is implied that the presence of Balrogs allowed the capture of Maedhros. Fingon was holding his own against Gothmog until he was strruck down from behind by another Balrog. Remember too that these were some of the greatest of the Noldor and that they invariably seem to have lost when Balrogs were present.

:There are tons more of men and elves being surprised by orcs and killing them all. In the Fifth Battle Huor and Hurin's men held back the whole army of Angband long enough for the Elves to escape.

The men of Dor-Lomin were defending a river crossing and had decided not to attempt escape. 186 defenders held the Alamo for 17 days against an army of 6000.

: Hurin himself killed at least 70 at the end and most of them were trolls who guarded Gothmog.

And Hurin was the greatest warrior of the Edain, with the exception of his son. Also, the enemy was attempting to capture him alive, while he was resigned to death, which gave him a huge advantage.

: Then you have contradicting evidence like Glorifindel barely killing a Balrog. Gandalf a Maia barely defeating a Balrog.

I don't think that this is conflicting evidence. See the examples of Maedhros and Fingon above.

: The Urak Hai didn't appear frightened when the Riders of Rohan were after them.

And they were sadly mistaken in this belief.

: What do you guys think about this then?

: -Thentaran

IMHO, Balrogs were very bad news. GLorfindel and Gandalf are the only examples that I can recall of Balrogs being defeated in battle (with the exception of the War of Wrath at the end of the First Age). Legolas described them as the most deadly Elf-banes in existence after Sauron himself. Orcs were probably equal to average fighters among Men or Elves. The instances where a small group of heroes destroyed larger forces of orcs servived to become legends because of their unlikelihood. Trolls were almost certainly tougher than orcs, but much stupider, which made them somewhat less dangerous opponents in any encounter short of a brawl.