The White Council

Re: Tolkien's sources

Tolkien and Inklings Discussion

: : Hello everyone. I've been skulking in the background reading the posts and I've been absolutely fascinated by some of the stuff people have come up with on this board. Anyway, I was wondering if anybody had any ideas on something which has been bugging me recently. : Tolkien always presented himself as being a translator of books such as the Red Book of Wesmarch and whatever Bilbo (was it him?) called the Silmarillion when he translated it into Westron.

: How was Tolkien supposed to have got hold of these copies in the first place? Did he ever 'justify' this? Also, how was he able to translate from Westron, Quenya or Sindarin into English? Did he ever explain in one of his Letters? I don't think there were that many Sindarin-English dictionaries kicking around in the thirties (although there are probably quite a few now!) I know he tried to rationalise this with Aelfwine going to Tol Eressea in the BoLT but I thought that he'd rejected all that stuff by the time LotR came along. Or did he possibly 'find' a copy in some forgotten corner of the Bodliean Library?

: Any ideas anybody? : Cheers : Voronwe

I'm speculating wildly of course, but in this context it's IMHO interesing to look at Tolkien's religious views. ME is a pre-Christian world yet has many Christian/Catholic values and systems. There is one God who ultimately controls and holds all power. After death, Men leave the speres of Arda and go to maybe Heaven? The cult of Elbereth is comparable to that of the Virgin Mary, even down to the structure of some of the hymns, and her titles (Queen of the Stars= Regina Caelesti, Star over the Sea=Stella Maria etc etc ...). I think Shippey states that it was Tolkien's theory that God reveals himself to all peoples and religions, but to each in a different way so that they can understand him better. This is of course, not just Tolkien's idea. Tolkien just continues this by saying that because of that, Heathens could be redeemed just as well as Christians or Jews. Of course, Tolkien was neither the first nor the only person to have thought that, but nevertheless, it seems likely he believed it.

This may seem an odd thing to worry about, but it was not long ago that a lot of people were saying only Christians could be saved, and that was a justification for converting people to Christianity, against there will, even using force.

Okay, I;m drifting. Tolkien beilieved God's revelation in Christianity, and especially in Catholicism was the most perfect and full revelation to date. But that didn't make other, previous revelations invalid or wrong. Just as God revealed himself in some simple way to cavemen and in a more full way to other Heathens, God was able to cast an image of the truth into any receptive Author. Tolkien's revelation bridges the gap between Heathen and Christian beliefs. In a way, therefore, the story of the Silmarillion is actually true.

Because it is, when viewed in the very special light in hich it came to be, true, any story of how some lost manuscript passed into Tolkien's hands together with a magically preserved Westron-English dictionary would therefore be counter productive. It would de-mystify the enlightement.

IMHO.

Shadowfax