The White Council

Re: Why stop at One indeed

Tolkien and Inklings Discussion

: I'm not certain I understand your point here, I thought the question was: Could Sauron have made more Rings? The answer seems to be no, however, if you are asking: Was Sauron fallible, then we all know that he was, and the entire point of this argument is moot. We don't need to go into the possibility of Sauron overlooking his ability to make more rings to point out all of Sauron's fallible points. Certainly, the destruction of the One is the easist example to relate to.

The point is that he could have just made a mistake. Am I so hard to follow? I don't know how I can make myself clearer. Maybe if I just write scredes, then maybe my point would come across clearere.

: However, if the question is: Could Sauron have made more Rings? Then it seems (IMHO) that he could not, for all the reasons that I have stated. While he may have overlooked that he could make more Rings that seems doubtful (but see my above argument). More likely he would have if he could have.

I guess you're right about it being doubtful, but if you look at it from the other point of view, and take the logical steps as to why Sauron should lost his ring making powers, well, it doesn't follow.

: Again, I will refer to above and below. Certainly if he was capable of making more Rings he would have. But the resounding fact remains that he did not. The question then becomes "Why?". Certainly he had the skill and the ability prior to making the One. But oddly not after. That would seems to indicate two reasons: either he could not or he would not. If he could not, then the reason is obvious, it is because of the One (whether he had too much of his own power in the One or the strain was too great is debateable). If he would not, then it either because the Rings that he could make after the One would not be of much use (tying shoelaces in the morning is nice, but really not necessary) or something else. But I don't think I can agree that Sauron simply overlooked the idea of making more Rings. Kindly refer to my argument above about Sauron being a Ring junkie.

Not after that.... you seem so sure that Sauron COULDN"T make more. I'm not so sure. After all, a highly plausible reason could be that there were no more people that Sauron wished to enslave, AND were stupid enough to fall for the ring trick. There are other likely scenarios, and I think that's what we should be looking for, rather than just saying "Sauron couldn't" with a lot of finality.

: snip

: : This brings me to another interesting point. Were the rings re-usable? After all, Sauron drew the nine to his hand again after the men were subdued (I am taking the line that Sauron held the nine). Could Sauron re-distribute these rings, and corrupt more people?? I don't really see why not...

: Aparently they were not re-usable. Using the same logic, since Sauron did not do it then there must be a reason. I do not believe that he would have "overlooked" the idea, since he was such a Ring junkie. He held the Nine and used them to control the Nazgul, which were his best weapons. If he could have made more then he would have. But since he did not, it suggests again that either he could not or he would not. Meaning that once a Ring's wearer has become a wraith then they are somehow tied to that Ring, while the Ring will control them, passing the Ring to someone else may break that link and the Nazgul is lost and the process must begin anew. If he would not, then it would mean that the potential existed but the new wraith created wasn't worthwhile, having not enough power to steep tea.

Again, you're using the same argument that "Sauron knows best"

: : Also, consider whom Sauron gave rings to. If Sauron had given all of the nine to Numenorean nobility (from Numenor, not the black Numenoreans), then he could probably corrupt Numenorean society, and have taken over......

: I don't know about this one. I will please simple ignorance, since I lack enough Ring lore and ME history to provide a reasonable debate.

likewise

: -RR

Gandalf