The White Council

Re: Elrond

Tolkien and Inklings Discussion

: : I think Elrond was just a strong as FA elves. He just used his strength differently. I think many people make the mistake of thinking of the decline of elvish strength as a decline in the strength of individual elves, and not as a decline in the strength of the elven people, as a whole, to influence the world around them. I believe the latter is what Tolkien ment when he said elvish strength had declined in the TA. : : ~Aelmer

: : I agree with this to some extent, but I think I was one of the loudest supporters of the point that third age elves were inferior when compared to "First Agers".

: It has already been said before that Elrond never really proved that he was great in arms, or in military tactics. We are given no evidence (sorry, direct evidence) that Elrond was a great war leader, or that he could defeat X number of orcs in combat. Okai, that's not conclusive evidence that he WASN"T great, however, you'd think that in the thousands of years that he was alive, he would have done something that the bards can sing about! Even a good tactical decision at one stage or something...

Elrond was Gil-galad's second in The Last Alliance, and faced Sauron with Gil-galad upon Orodruin. He was in command of the army Gil-galad sent to relieve Eregion from Sauron's forces during the War of Elves and Sauron. Elrond was enough of a warleader to successfully defend Imladris when it was besieged. He was also instrumental in the Angmar wars, able to summon the Elves of Lindon and Lorien to aid aginst Angmar. And, of course, he was appointed vice-regent of Eriador. He also participated in the War of Wrath. After the fall of Gil-galad he seems to have been the chief of the Eldar in Middle-Earth.

: I agree that he was one of the wisest, BUT, remember that he had lived long enough to learn humility, and patience, etc. Most of the First Age elves were pretty hot blooded.

: As with any debate, this may come down to the semantics of "What do you define as greatness". Personally, I don't think it's all feat in arms, etc, BUT, that does come into it. Was Elrond shown to have great skill and subtlety of hand? Not really. Was he a fighter? Not as far as I know. Was he a reknown military leader? Well... this can be argued for quite a while. In fact, thinking about it, I think that to be great, he would have to shine in one of his fields. The only thing that Elrond is REALLY known for, is his wisdom. (I'm not saying he's definitely not great in the other areas, but there is little evidence to back it up) As I said before, Elrond's wisdom was almost default, because he got to live so long, through so much strife. It wasn't something that was purely innate, and born with. it was something that a leader learns, when he has to live through so many defeats, and so many sorrows.

His skill of hand was also shown. He was the preeminate Healer in Middle-earth. He was wise enough to be Gil-galad's chief councillor early in the Second Age before he had "got to live so long". So Elrond shows great skills in mind, body and spirit.

"The face of Elrond was ageless, neither young nor old, though in it was written the memory of many things both glad and sorrowful. His hair was dark as the shadows of twilight, and upon it was set a circlet of silver; his eyes were grey as a clear evening, and in them was a light like the light of stars. Venerable he seemed as a king crowned with many winters, and yet hale as a tried warrior in the fulness of his strength. He was the Lord of Rivendell and mighty among both Elves and Men."