![]() |
|
The White CouncilRe: Numenorean SurvivorsTolkien and Inklings Discussion |
|
Posted by Alexander on May 22, 2000 at 10:20:58 In Reply to: Re: Numenorean Survivors posted by Michael Martinez on May 21, 2000 at 01:41:40:
: Don't forget that they had advantages we don't have: the blessings of the Valar and gifts from the Elves. Also, it's implied there is a great deal of traffic over the seas between Numenor and Middle-earth. Tribute could be given in the form of grains and wines as well as gold, silver, slaves, and mithril. That`s true. Imperial Rome`s huge population was partly dependent on the supply of grain from Egypt, more a thousand miles away, and although Middle-earth was at a much greater distance than that from Numenor, the Numenoreans had a far greater control of the sea than any other maritime power, and piracy, until perhaps the very end, would have been unknown. Perhaps the best parallel is the British Empire of a century ago, where the invention of the steamship and the opening up of the North American prairies allowed something like half Britain`s grain supply to be imported. I don`t think the Numenoreans had steamships, even under Sauron, but their own merchantmen would have been adequate. I think it`s implied that in Ar-Pharazon`s reign there was a massive transportation of millions of slaves to Numenor - both to row the thousands of vast ships that would go to Aman (the Hellenistic navies had ships with more than a thousand oarsmen), and even more, to do the neccessary work in Numenor when such a large proportion of the population had been armed to make war on Aman. I think this is the background to the statement that the Numenoreans no longer came even as rulers, let alone bringers of gifts, "but as fierce men of war." I always wondered what their purpose was - they can`t have needed them all to sacrifice in their temples, and it would make sense if their economy suddenly needed vast number of slaves, in greater numbers than could be bought or taken in tribute from inland kings. They would have had to enslave whole populations. I believe that Plutarch calculated that in Caesar`s conquest of Gaul a million were killed and another million enslaved. When even a small province such as Epirus was taken, 150,000 were enslaved. I suspect that happened along the whole eastern coast of middle earth, and perhaps beyond.
|
Tip: Earlier messages, if they are missing when you click on the links, may be in a lower-numbered archive. Edit the URL in your browser window to change the archive number. Ex. archive_02/ becomes archive_01/.
Tip: Click on the Tolkien and Inklings Forum link to followup to archived messages. You'll need to copy the text from this message and repost it in your new message.
The Tolkien and Inklings Forum is an SF-FANDOM Web site.
SF-FANDOM is a part of the Xenite.Org network.
Xenite.Org is home to Lord of the Rings movie news. The Tolkien and Inklings Forum is the Web's oldest fan-run forum dedicated to J.R.R. Tolkien.
Xenite.Org has been providing the most comprehensive Lord of the Rings movie news on the Web since February 1998.
Xenite.Org also brings you Xena Online Resources. Xena Online Resources is the Web's largest directory of Hercules and Xena-related content.
The Xenite.Org network is home to more than 100 science fiction and fantasy Web sites.
The Tolkien and Inklings Forum is an independent, moderated forum provided as a courtesy to fans of J.R.R. Tolkien and the Inklings, including C.S. Lewis, Charles Williams, et. al., by Xenite.Org. Please be sure to review our Posting Policy before participating in our forums. This archive is provided as a courtesy of Xenite.Org and in no way implies or imparts any liability or obligation on our part to uphold or maintain the content provided herein. This message and other archived messages from Xenite.Org forums may contain content not necessarily endorsed, reviewed, or approved by Xenite.Org and/or its moderation staff. All opinions expressed in these archives are those of the original posters and do not necessarily represent the views and opinions of Xenite.Org, its owner or owners, moderators, administrators, and/or other volunteer staff or agents. All content is copyright the original poster unless otherwise noted. This page is copyright © 1997-2001 Michael L. Martinez. All rights reserved. No reproduction, electronic or otherwise, may be made without the express permission of the copyright holders, except as occurs in normal browser caching and search engine indexing. You may print one copy of this page for your personal use.