The White Council

Re: Did Elves Farm?

Tolkien and Inklings Discussion

snip : : So the elves may as well eat, but I doubt they could die of starvation. If they could, it would probably take over a year... Tolkiens world was definately different to our own in physics, take into consideration Ulmo dragging Tol-Erissa across the ocean, or Beren crossing from Dorthonian to Doriath; Or even something like when Maedhros was chained to Thangorodrim. Who knows how long he was up there, and he didn't have food or water (lack of water would have killed him, not lack of food, but he still endured it for a *very* long time). This example proves also that Tolkienian physics were very different to earth's (if they were same, Maethros' hand or even his arm would have come off eventually). Overall, I doubt that an elf or maia could die of starvation, they would, on the other hand, suffer (all that I have said is IMO).

: : Maedhros : No indeed the physics are not different. The world works the same in every way. In spite of what you may like Maedhros. You can not have your cake and eat it too. But I can easily agree with you the it might take a year for an elf to die of starvation. But long before the year was over he likely would be unable to move, the little energy he had left would be reserved to maintain life in his body. Likewise and elf would be able to endure much torture. But to maintain health and vigor and elf would need to eat. A machine needs fuel to run and that is true in Tolkiens world or any other.

Pre-first age, the Ainur were not physical beings, they did not eat. They became physical later and their bodies would only diminish from injury, then they would need food to repair (IMO), this would also be the function of waybread. The elves would live forever food or no food in the image of Eru, this is shown by the his image of the Ainur. The men on the other hand, did not live forever, and they probably ate for similiar reasoning than the Elves, but they did not live long enough to refrain from devouring all too often (every day), that is because they found it very delightful, not because they simply needed it.

As to select comments: "But long before the year was over he likely would be unable to move, the little energy he had left would be reserved to maintain life in his body." Elves were magical beings, and in many respects like the Ainur, their energy was not based on food, but believe as you like, this would be your interpretation of the matter. It is not said that the elves ran off of food, nor is it said that Tolkiens' machines ran off of physical fuel (save the generic and non-magical few types that had automated movement)

"But to maintain health and vigor and elf would need to eat." That is IMO the only reason they ate, to heal, the difference between them and other races sounds like their cells only reproduce for healing reasons, and did not die of age (just as they do not die).

As to the physical rules of ME, compared to ours: The Middle-earth physics were not the same, I have no idea why you seem to think they are. I have already said that specific beings, such as Olwe, would have already disintegrated under our physical conditions. There is no way that beings like the Nazgul could have existed, much less talked. Magic would not exist. Earthen laws are all based on "what is; what is not" and "what can be; what can not be", ME laws are in a sense of "what is, and beyond". This whole topic is off the point anyway.