The White Council

Re: I have three questions about rings

Tolkien and Inklings Discussion

: Hello, this is my first post, so if I'm asking already asked questions, please forgive. : (1) I have always wondered two things about the One Ring. First, how did Sauron not notice Bilbo using it throughout the very long time Bilbo had it? Bilbo admits to using the ring fairly often, and wouldn't Sauron have noticed it when bilbo used it at the Birthday party? Or did he not have the power to notice when his ring was being used until after Frodo set out from Hobbiton? It just doesn't quite make sense. Also, this is partially explained in the books, but was it really that hard for Gandalf to recognize the ring? He knew about the three, and if it was one of the Seven, it would have had a jewel and made Bilbo want gold, and the nine were with Sauron, and the Silmarillion says that all of the rings but the three were taken by Sauron. Is this one of the things Gandalf forgot when he went to Middle-Earth? I mean, how many magic rings could it have been?

This is actually a good question, especially given that Sauron was rather near to Bilbo when he travelled through Mirkwood (and did a little bug extermination). The best that I think we (as in this board) have come up with is that Sauron was still rather weak, though he had grown rather powerful by that point, that he was searching in another direction (his eye was not all seeing) and that the Wise were casting him out at that time, and thus he had to flee to Mordor. He was at best distracted and at worst nearsighted in his search.

As to Gandalf not recognizing the Ring, it had been lost for a great deal of time. Gollum had it in his posession for (IIRC) over 500 years. It was a "plain looking" gold ring, and when Bilbo first found it, it was suggested that such small things were rather common (as magic rings go). To Gandalf's credit he did begin to suspect Bilbo's story of his escape from the goblins from the begining, though it was some time later that he gained the entire story (I believe he used sodium pentethol - Thankyou Lampoon). He also had not learned the entire history of the One until prior to telling it's history to Frodo, and later to the Council. He was not the master of Ring lore that Sauraman was. So it would have been easy to for him to overlook initially, though he was suspicious.

: (2) One other question about rings. I noticed an earlier set of postings that talked about the nine and how Sauron kept them. My question is this: How did he get them back from the nine in the first place? I mean, you don't normally want to give up something that has enslaved you and gives you all your power. Granted, they probably didn't know that Sauron could control them through the nine, but still, would they really just give them back? Or did he take them, and wouldn't that have broken them and made them useless? : Josh.

Your answer is actually in your statement. Sauron controlled the Nine through the One. Once they had become wraiths, he had them utterly in his power, and it would be a simple matter, from that, to order them to surrender their Rings. And thus he gained even more control over them. They really had no choice in the matter, or had as much choice as they did in becoming wraiths.

-RR