The White Council

Re: What constitutes evil in Tolkien's creation?

Tolkien and Inklings Discussion

: : Thus of the Elves, what did they express which might be : : described as undesirable traits? Pride certainly, distain of : : non-elves, covetousness, folly, selfishness - all these things : : were in their make up. However, did they show to any great : : degree spite? Did they try to deliberately corrupt, warp or : : destroy the works of others? Did they seek to dominate the : : wills of others or rule others by fear? I do not think so. : : Therefore using Tolkien's own yardstick the Elves can be : : characterised as fundamentally good, or at least not : : fundamentally evil.

: Except that the Elves of Eregion tried to halt the flow of Time in Middle-earth, to preserve it as a "desert" (as Tolkien put it), to make it their canvas on which they could practice their art. And because of that folly many fair things were lost or destroyed.

However, crucially they attempted these things not in a spirit of spite, that is their intention was not to corrupt in order to affront Eru, who had ordained the mutability of Middle Earth, but they wished to preserve their own creations and culture in aspic as it were. Their actions may have caused Eru and the Valar grief, but it was not their avowed intention to do so. This is in very sharp contrast to the intent of Melkor and his minions. Therefore, whatever the practical outcome of their actions the Elves were not indulging in any of the "primary evils" of Tolkien's creation which I identified earlier.

: Would the Numenoreans still have fallen under the Shadow if they had not gone back to Middle-earth in might and seen how strong they were become?

: Would Numenor still have rebelled against the Valar if Sauron had not forged the One Ring and used it to corrupt them?

I'm not sure of the relevance of these questions. Though Elves and Men were capable of what one would call conventionally evil acts, there is a distiction between this and people and races who are fundamentally evil. The Numenoreans were suborned by pride, sometimes a sin within Tolkien's corpus (Aragorn was proud , though pride wedded to compassion and duty is arguably a virtue in Tolkien), but not, I would argue one of the fundamental ones. Once again the Numenoreans were not invading Valinor principally in order to corrupt or desolate it (though this would have been a by-product) they invaded to attain immortality, a "gift" they had been deluded into thinking had been denied to them by capricious acts of Eru and the Valar. Their chief motive was therefore not spite or a desire to dominate (though they had shown evidence of the latter evil within ME).

: The Elves set themselves on the same path as Melkor. That they were brought up short by Sauron's treachery doesn't excuse them.

: Tolkien wrote about the tragedy of the fall of the Elves. They suffered two falls, in fact. And both falls had devastating consequences not only for them but for many others.

: They had the freedom to make choices and in doing so made some bad choices. This paradigm opposes the concept of "fundamentally good" and "fundamentally evil" races.

The paradigm of fundamental good and evil is not perfect, though it Tolkien's world appears this way at the surface. In reality what Tolkien gives us are beings and races which have free will and usually a tendancy towards acting for good ends but are capable of evil, contrasted with beings and races who have lost or been deprived of free will and are unable to refrain from evil acts. The distiction is subtle, and I think would not occurr to many readers who do not reflect on such matters.

In the first case would be the majority of the Ainur, and the races of Elves, Men, Hobbits, Ents and Dwarves etc. Capable, through the action of free will of acts of folly and outright evil, but not fundamentally aligned to evil.

In the second case would be Melkor and his Ainur followers, who it is arguable renounced the option of doing good and therfore curtailed their access to free will. The measure of self-reinforcement of evil acts and their heady attraction for these beings must have been very great indeed. It could be argued that after the War of Wrath Sauron may have made genuine attempts at self-reform though he was apparently "too steeped in blood" for his attempt to be sucessful. Also in this case would be the most tragic of Tolkien's creatures , the Orcs, Trolls, Dragons etc. For these races the lack of access to free will was, aparently, not chosen by them in the first place but constrained upon them by the nature of their creation (or corruption). These creatures were fundamentally evil.

: : As to the orcs, all their basic drives were towards the : : expression of spite. For example they carve their names on the : : heads of fallen foes, furthermore they eat other sentient : : beings (men etc.) - the ultimate (in this setting) expression : : of wanting to destroy and denigrate. They also seek to force : : their control on others, not least others of their own kind, in : : rather obvious and violent ways. And they are delighters in : : torture - the most intimate form of domination.

: And they build communities, roads, heal one another, defend each other, establish customs and traditions...all very much the same as the Elves and Men. It was the Elves who sought to hold back Time, not the Orcs. Whose evil was greater?

Communities of extreme psychopaths and sociopaths would be impossible. In order to function orcs must have had some ability for social organisation. Likewise, the Aztecs were, on the whole, kind to their children and respectfull of their laws. Though I would say that, with their penchant for sacrificing tens of thousands of victims a year in a most cruel manner, their society was in some ways distinctly evil.

: The Orcs were enslaved by Dark Lords. The Elves chose to do evil.

: One must conclude that the Elves were the fundamentally evil race if there was indeed such a concept in Tolkien.

The Elves were not, as I have argued above, indulging in either of Tolkien's fundamental evils. The orcs in contrast could not do anything other than indulge in spite destruction and domination.