The White Council

Re: Suite101 Article: Middle-earth Connections: Lore of the Rings

Tolkien and Inklings Discussion

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: : I also do not believe that the "stretching" we see in Gollum, : : Bilbo and the other mortal bearers of the One is a function of : : the "time warp" feature. The Mirdain gave their rings the : : time warp function to hold back time and fading. In other : : words, to make it more like Aman on Middle-earth - where the : : Elves could go on and on and live in their own little bubble. : : The effect of the way time worked in Aman and in Lorien (where : : the time warp was operating) is similar. The Elves told the : : Numenoreans that if they were to go to Aman, they could not : : handle the immortality there and they would burn out and die : : quickly. That is what was happening to the mortals to a : : lesser extent in Lorien. They felt as if a few days past, but : : a month had passed. Imagine if mortals stayed there a year - : : they would actually age 40 years!. In two years they'd be : : dead! That is strikingly similar to what the Elves warned the : : Numenoreans what would happen to mortals in Aman.

: They would not die of old age, however. Instead of aging, they would be ageless, but their spirits would still desire to leave their bodies at the appropriate time, and incapable of doing so would be tormented. Tolkien in fact suggested that the Men would become like zombies in Aman.

I assume you are referring to Letter 131 (top page 155 and note) where Tolkien likens the effect of the Ring on mortals to the effect of setting foot on Aman on mortals? "...prolongation in time is like stertching a wire out even tauter, or 'spreading butter even thinner' - it becomes an unbearable torment"

There seems to be a contradiction between the view set forth in Letter 131 and the view set forth in the Drowning of Anadune and the Akallabeth.

In Drowing of Anadune, the Elves warn the Numenoreans as follows: In Aman "...you should rather wither sooner, as moths to a flame too bright and hot"

In the Akallabeth the warning is similar: "...there you would wither and grow weary the sooner, as moths in a light too strong and steadfast."

I'm not sure how to rectify the contradiction. In one the vision is that a mortal in Aman would stretch like Gollum with the Ring or the Nazgul. In the other vision, a mortal would wither away sooner. Although the latter vision did make it to an actual text and postdated Letter 131.

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: : Why would the Elves want this? I think because Elves have a : : different subjective relationship to time. Having eternity to : : exist can get pretty boring. How many sunrises can you see : : without getting bored with sunrises. The Elves who lived in : : Aman, and to a lesser extent the Elves who lived in Lorien : : had, a more "human" relationship to time. Thus while having a : : day pass for 7 in the "real" world is perilous for mortals, it : : is exhilirating for Elves.

: I don't think that is what Elvish psychology is about. They seem to spend much of their time "creating" (or "sub-creating"), devoting their energies to inner goals rather than external ones. "Perfection of mind and body" probably means something different to an Elf from what it means to a Man, but it would seem to be in their nature to inherently pursue that -- to always strive to achieve their fullest potential. So many Men don't do that it cannot be said to be in our nature to do so.

: To an Elf, Time is a finite line, not an infinite or eternal path. To a man Time is all one and the same with whatever lies outside of it. Men will continue. Elves have no idea of what will happen to them. All they know is that when Time comes to its inevitable end, they will die, and that death will not be the same as the death of the body. What happens to their spirits then?

Man argued the reverse. Men argued that it was they who could not know their fate. Elves at least *knew* they would go to Aman.

: : On the other hand, this is not what's happening to the mortals : : who wield the One. They are not burning out quickly as if time : : is accelerated for them - they are being stretched out.

: : I think this stretching function is related to the Rings of : : Power dark Trojan Horse purpose as vehicles for their ultimate : : domination by the One. Remember that the Three did not confer : : invisibiltity; and not surprisingly they also were not : : intended for domination. Thus, I think the invisibility (or : : more accurately the door to the sprit or unseen world) is : : related to the domination function.

: The invisibility is related to the spiritual aspects of the purposes the Elves were trying to achieve. They wanted to see the spirits of Elves (apparently) who had not gone to Aman. That would be the choice of Elves who had faded. The psychology of the Rings is bound up in what the Elves feared. The psychology of the One Ring is a combination of the Elves' fears and what Sauron desired (domination).

Where do you get that? In Letter 131 Tolkien specifically ascribes the door to the spiritual world (aka invisiblity) as "more directly derived from Sauron" It wasn't and Elven element in the Rings. Not surprisingly the Three didn't have this effect.

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: : One final comment. I do not think the Rings of Power could : : restore an Elf to life. That is beyond the power of the : : Children of Iluvatar. Indeed, it is beyond the normal power of : : the Valar. Manwe and Mandos were given the power to : : reincarnate disembodied fear as a dispensation from Iluvatar.

: And Sauron was NOT given dispensation to halt the effects of Time, but he did. The Elven Rings might very well have been intended to raise the dead. Necromancy was, after all, one of Sauron's avocations.

"...the Three Rings were precisely endowed with the power of preservation, not of birth." Letter 144.

Russ