The White Council

Re: Suite101 Article: Middle-earth Connections: Lore of the Rings

Tolkien and Inklings Discussion

: : Your reasoning about the other Rings of Power completely : : misses the point that Sauron had a direct hand in their : : making. And Sauron has no reason to imbue any Ring with an : : ability to hold back time, or prevent 'fading'. Quite the : : reverse; he'd be glad to see the Elves take the quickest boat : : to Valinor (once he has plundered their skill at Ring-craft, : : which he did at Eregion, and allowed him to forge the One : : Ring).

: The Elves made the Rings of Power expressly for the purpose of holding back Time (or its effects), and ALL the Rings were made for them initially. Tolkien states this in numerous places. So your objection is flawed. Sauron most certainly had reason to help the Elves create these kinds of Rings.

ALL the Rings were made FOR Elves, initially? But the Seven seem to have clearly have been intended for the Dwarves, being imbued with the ability to increase wealth. And then there is the poem declaiming which race would get which Rings. I'm afraid I'm missing your point here. Sorry to be dense. :)

: : It's also unreasonable to say that the Three granted an : : element of timelessness within a range, when it is clear that : : Gandalf was wearing Narya during the time of the Fellowship, : : and there was no contracting of time in his presence through : : to the time that the party travelled through Moria.

: [snip]

: Unless the range was effected at the will of the possessor, and Gandalf, travelling around the world (and being a faithful Ainu), would not have tried to hold back the effects of Time for anyone.

I don't mean to be rude, but that's a ridiculous stretch. Now you seem to be saying that the 'timelessness' power of a Ring could extend anywhere from just the wearer alone (or not at all) to an entire realm, at the Will of the wearer.

: : I suggest that Elrond and Galadriel cast spells surrounding : : their respective borders, using their Rings as the key to the : : spells, and that the 'timelessness' of their realms is a side : : affect of these wards.

: Tolkien stated specifically that the Rings were directly responsible for the enclaves where Time seemed to stand still. Tolkien never implies anywhere that Elrond and Galadriel cast spells. The Rings actually did not need to be worn to hold back the effects of Time.

My choice of the words 'cast spells' was an ill-considered one; I should have said something like 'used their will upon their Rings'. I agree that the Rings were used to create the enclaves where Time seemed to stand still. But to say that this was an effect of the mere presence of a Ring doesn't stand up. In addition to my previous example of Gandalf's wandering with Narya, let me ask this: Did Rivendell cease to be a timeless place when Elrond went away to the War of the Last Alliance, until he returned? Was the camp of the Last Alliance a timeless place while Elrond was there? Did Lorien cease to be timeless anytime Galadriel travelled to Rivendell for a meeting of the White Council? Was Rivendell a doubly-timeless place when Galadriel came to visit Elrond? Were the Grey Havens timeless at all? If they were, what sort of criminal does this make of Cirdan to give away that power to Gandalf?

Rhetorical questions, my point being that it just doesn't stand to reason that the Rings were the source of 'timelessness', in the sense of it radiating from them.